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'97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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ultimatecarnut
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Nov 9, 2011, 4:11 PM
Post #1 of 22
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'97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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I'm having no luck with my autos lately!!! First my cruise on my truck stops working (still haven't followed up on that), and now my moto transport van died on me. Damn!!!
5.9 L engine. Just died cold. Checked and there's no spark.
Anyone got any experience with these? I'm hoping there might be some common components that fail that are easy / cheap to replace. I have much higher hopes to be able to fix this one vs. my cruise on my truck.
Thanks in advance!
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Hammer Time
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Nov 9, 2011, 4:19 PM
Post #2 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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You need to do some more testing to be able to conclude anything.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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ultimatecarnut
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Nov 9, 2011, 4:41 PM
Post #3 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Thanks, Hammer!
I've verified there's no spark at the plug, and there is a strong fuel supply at the throttle body (haven't tested with a pressure gauge, but pulled line and turned the ignition on and got a serious gush of fuel).
Have not checked for an injector pulse.
But based on no spark alone, couldn't I conclude it's something in the electrical system?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 9, 2011, 5:00 PM
Post #4 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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No, you can't. Check the injector pulse next and that will tell us a lot.
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ultimatecarnut
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Nov 9, 2011, 5:20 PM
Post #5 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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OK cool. Thanks.
I'll check the compression while I'm at it.
Any idea what I'm looking for there? 75 psi or so?
-Cheers
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Hammer Time
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Nov 9, 2011, 5:25 PM
Post #6 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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I don't know that compression is necessary at this point since we are finding other issues. The injector pulse and injector power supply is important though.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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ultimatecarnut
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Nov 14, 2011, 5:52 PM
Post #7 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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So here's the latest, Hammer-
Injector pulse seems fine.
One thing I didn't check from your first list is coil power. I'm assuming that since you mentioned that, that this beast does have a traditional coil? I thought there'd be an ignition box or module or something. Is it just a single wire that I can trace from the distributor?
Thanks again-
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Hammer Time
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Nov 14, 2011, 6:05 PM
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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The power wire to the coil is dk green with orange. I assume you used a noid light on the injectors and got flash?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
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Nov 14, 2011, 6:48 PM
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Dodge was pretty smart on those. The PCM would watch the peak primary current the coil would use. If the PCM didn't see the right amount of current to the coil when it grounded the coil, it would set a code 43 ignition primary circuit. You should see if you have any trouble codes being stored.
You can get codes on that one by turning the ignition on, off, on, off, on. The check engine light will flash two digit codes stored. The last code it will flash is a 55 which means end of codes.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
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Nov 15, 2011, 4:47 PM
Post #12 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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A 2 digit code like 25 will be 2 flashes, short pause 5 flashes, then longer pause between other codes.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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ultimatecarnut
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Nov 30, 2011, 2:06 PM
Post #13 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Thanks, Hammer.
I will check this out and reply back.
Been gone for 2 weeks and the poor van's been relegated from back burner to off the stove entirely.
Gotta get it fixed, though. The wife's getting pissed that it's just taking up space in the driveway...
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ultimatecarnut
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Nov 30, 2011, 5:35 PM
Post #14 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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So it looks like I'm getting 12, then 55. Does this tell us anything?
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Hammer Time
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Nov 30, 2011, 5:41 PM
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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That pretty much means nothing.
The #12 means the battery was disconnected and the #55 just means end of test.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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ultimatecarnut
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Dec 13, 2011, 5:39 PM
Post #16 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Well guys, I finally broke down and had the ol' van towed to the shop. I just didn't end up having the time to spend screwing around with it.
I appreciate all the help and answers I got here from you guys. Thanks!
I'll be sure to report back on what the findings are.
Cheers!
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ultimatecarnut
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Jan 31, 2012, 1:13 PM
Post #17 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Bringin' this one back from the dead
Thanks again to all those that tried to help.
Turns out it was a crank position sensor. While i could have done without the mechanic's bill for all the investigative work, i'm glad i didn't just start throwing parts at it.
Anyhow, now i have a new problem and i'm hoping some of you guys can help me out again. The thing's been running fine, but now i have a 'check engine' light on, and i'm getting a code sequence of 12, 54, 55...
From this thread, it seems that 12 and 55 are normal.
Any help on the 54?
Thanks again in advance.
P.S... anyone want to buy a Ram Van...?? hahahaha
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jan 31, 2012, 2:02 PM
Post #18 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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No cam sensor signal at PCM
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ultimatecarnut
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Feb 2, 2012, 6:11 PM
Post #19 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Cool. Thanks, Hammer.
But another question - wouldn't this cause it to not run? It seems to be running normal??? Is this just a matter of replacing the cam sensor, and if so, how hard is that?
Damn! This van used to be solid as a rock, and now it's nothing but trouble (and $$$$)!!!!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 2, 2012, 6:22 PM
Post #20 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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Different manufacturers use cam sensor signals for different purposes. Many will run without one but wouldn't have proper injector synchronization. It's going to require some in depth testing to to determine whats setting the code. There are a lot of ways for that code to trigger beside just a bad sensor.
It's pretty easy to try a new one in that truck though. I would first try clearing the code and see if it comes right back or not.
It could be as simple as setting the synch of the distributor. That requires a professional scan tool.
CHECKING DISTRIBUTOR POSITION
To verify correct distributor rotational position, connect the DRB scan tool to the data link connector. The data link connector is located in the passenger compartment, below and to the left of steering column. Gain access to the SET SYNC screen on the DRB.
WARNING: When performing the following test, the engine will be running. Be careful not to stand in line with the fan blades or fan belt. Do not wear loose clothing.
Follow the directions on the DRB screen and start the engine. With the engine running, the words IN RANGE should appear on the screen along with O~. This indicates correct distributor position.
If a plus (+) or a minus (-) is displayed next to the degree number and/or the degree displayed is not zero, loosen but do not remove the distributor holddown clamp bolt. Rotate the distributor until IN RANGE appears on the screen. Continue to rotate the distributor until achieving as close to 0~ as possible. After adjustment, tighten clamp bolt to 22.5 N.m (200 in. lbs.) torque.
The degree scale on the SET SYNC screen of the DRB is referring to fuel synchronization only It is not referring to ignition timing. Because of this, do not attempt to adjust ignition timing using this method. Rotating the distributor will have no effect on ignition timing. All ignition timing values are controlled by the powertrain control module (PCM).
After testing, install air cleaner assembly.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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ultimatecarnut
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Feb 9, 2012, 4:59 PM
Post #21 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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You are the man, Hammer! Thanks again for the great info!
Now another rookie question... how do I clear the code? And if that doesn't work, where's the sensor located?
I don't have a scan tool, so if all else fails, it's back to the mechanic again...
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 9, 2012, 5:11 PM
Post #22 of 22
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Re: '97 Dodge Ram Van 3500 - no spark
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As the previous post states, the distributor HAS to be set with a scan tool. The scan tool can also clear the codes when finished.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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