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95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold


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webbwbb
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Nov 2, 2014, 2:57 PM

Post #1 of 23 (2115 views)
95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Hi, I have a 95 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. Last year, as winter approached, I had an issue where it would be very difficult to start my car. Since then, I have replaced the coil packs, spark plugs, and wire set. This year it is doing it again and I would really like to come up with a solution to it rather than ignoring it this time. Here is what I've found to be the best way to start it:
Let it crank for a few seconds, wait about fifteen seconds, start cranking while pumping the gas.
It has no issues turning over. I have also checked the air filter and it seems clean. Based on my very limited mechanical knowledge, I'm thinking that it is likely a fuel system issue but would like to get an opinion from someone who actually knows what they are talking about :)


EDIT: I live in Florida so we are not talking about freezing weather. It's been getting down to the 50 and 60s lately. I also have been using only Mobil, Chevron, or Shell lately so I don't think that it could be cheap gas causing issues.


(This post was edited by webbwbb on Nov 2, 2014, 3:35 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 2, 2014, 3:53 PM

Post #2 of 23 (2101 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Try to get code readings and a fuel pressure test. Those temps are cold to an engine and fuel.


Should show up but might not on a 1995 but there's a coolant temp sensor to tell the "computer" that the engine is cold and deliver more fuel for cold starts. I think black wire with a stripe and yellow wire near thermostat if you find it at least make sure it's plugged in and connection good.


BTW - pumping gas pedal does nothing but confuse a fuel injected car - you are NOT pumping fuel touching the pedal,


T



webbwbb
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Nov 2, 2014, 4:16 PM

Post #3 of 23 (2097 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

The sensor is connected. In regards to pumping the gas, if I try to start it without doing that, I may sit there cranking it for 10 minutes and not get a result. Sometimes I hear it start to try and sputter and hitting the gas is the only way to get it to actually start.


Discretesignals
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Nov 2, 2014, 5:03 PM

Post #4 of 23 (2091 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Check engine light on? What is the fuel pressure reading when it doesn't want to start?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 2, 2014, 5:05 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 2, 2014, 5:06 PM

Post #5 of 23 (2089 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Careful not to wreck starter motor cranking this too much or too long at a time till fixed. Try this instead as a test instead. Hold key in run position and listen for the fuel pump to prime up and quit before turning key to "start" position. If that makes it start up faster or perfectly that's on the way to a better clue.


Not sure how much testing you are able to do and need to vs parts tossing. May have you on the wrong track but you said this is a cold weather (colder weather) starting problem suggests there isn't a problem when warmer right? Going on two seasons with this same issue.


I'm focused on this NOT sensing the engine is cold for any reason. It's been used for ages that CTS or also called a engine temp sensor. It's not one for a temp gauge but rather to determine fuel delivery. Cheap enough part but you can test it too with a plain OHM meter. See chart what it should read at what temp but IMO if it changes at all between a cold and warmed up engine it's probably right and problem is something else or wiring..........



Not a problem entirely but it's a 20 year old vehicle so open to a wider assortment of possible reasons some of which will be shown with a code reading. I'll wait on how to do that till you can verify that this thing works properly by itself with an OHM test.


You also really need to find out fuel pressure with KOEO (key on engine off) and if it holds. IMO a problem there more likely and also tons more costly potentially but shouldn't have waited two seasons IMO either to fail totally and not run at all.


Memory compromised but this CTS is easy and really don't even have to lower coolant level much or at all as it should be placed high in the cooling system so doesn't spill much if you do need to replace it. I wouldn't just toss it until known bad as it should come with a new pigtail connector to solder in as well.


Quick look said two engines possible for this so please state which, 3.1 or 3.4 was shown.


Also plain look around for lousy vacuum hoses or anything left disconnected. Even pre OBDII that should leave you with a check engine light most of the time.


Still thinking and need to know if this is just a one time cold start then running fine or starting fine if still warmed up at all the rest of a day?


T



webbwbb
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Nov 2, 2014, 6:48 PM

Post #6 of 23 (2081 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Sorry, it's the 3.1 model. It starts easily once warm.
I can't be certain that I was making proper contact with the amount of light that I had, but I read values in the 1.6k range while it is 49F outside so it seems like you were likely right that the sensor had some issues. I did try it with the sensor disconnected (approximately infinite resistance) and it still had the same issue. I don't know if the computer is smart enough to know if that is too high though.


Hammer Time
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Nov 2, 2014, 6:57 PM

Post #7 of 23 (2079 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Understand this........... pumping the throttle on a fuel injected car does nothing but exercise your foot.

Unplugging the coolant sensor will tell the computer that it is -40 deg F so don't do that.

You need to check the fuel pressure as you were advised.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



webbwbb
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Nov 2, 2014, 7:52 PM

Post #8 of 23 (2076 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

I did reconnect the temperature sensor, but thought that would be a good test. If it thought it was very cold, it would pump more fuel and should theoretically start easier. I will likely have to wait until next weekend to look into things more. Between work and school, I have no free daylight until Friday. I watched some videos on how to test fuel pressure. Do you know if Autozone will rent out a fuel pressure tester?


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 2, 2014, 8:33 PM

Post #9 of 23 (2066 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Check locally if a fuel pressure tester is rentable. I take it that it made no difference with CTS unplugged or plugged in? If it didn't change anything that alone suggests it's not communicating,


T



webbwbb
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Nov 7, 2014, 3:49 PM

Post #10 of 23 (2027 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Some updates:
I plan to test the fuel pressure on Sunday. I had another issue today where, when I was stopped, it started revving on it's own, then almost stalled. It usually idles at around 1k RPM but revved up to ~2.5k and then plummeted to ~400 and started to sputter. This was about a minute after a warm start. After I drove for a bit, it cleared up and had no more issues.


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 7, 2014, 9:02 PM

Post #11 of 23 (2017 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Still could be related to improper fuel pressure to hold within range and car is trying not to stall by itself.


Also check charging system is working properly now with this and all connections. I think this model still had a funky battery set up with it well hidden so you can't see connections or clean them up so easily on this and some like it.


Twas a bit older but the same car I think this model really had a lot of things to remember if a battery was disconnected so use a battery memory saver or get help. This car will likely not run well right away if battery is disconnected for any reason or goes dead loses important adaptive memory,


T



webbwbb
User

Nov 9, 2014, 3:59 PM

Post #12 of 23 (1998 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

I got 0 PSI. With the pump primed, I pressed in the shrader valve and nothing leaked out. I do hear the pump engage.


Hammer Time
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Nov 9, 2014, 4:51 PM

Post #13 of 23 (1997 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

So, I guess you are getting closer to finding your problem. Are you sure there is fuel in the tank?



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



webbwbb
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Nov 9, 2014, 5:00 PM

Post #14 of 23 (1994 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Unless someone stole it. I just filled up.


Hammer Time
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Nov 9, 2014, 5:25 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1992 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

So, I guess you need to find out how you lost your fuel pressure. Your first step is still to get a fuel pressure gauge before going any further. Pich off the return to see if that changes anything. If not, you're going to have to pull the tank and fuel pump. There is a short rubber hose at the pump that if it leaks will dump the pressure back into the tank.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Nov 9, 2014, 5:37 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1990 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Just curious, but if this a fuel drain back problem, have you cycled the key off to on 3 or 4 times (primed) before cranking the engine to see if it starts up faster?

You should also do as HT suggested.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 9, 2014, 5:40 PM)


webbwbb
User

Nov 9, 2014, 8:14 PM

Post #17 of 23 (1984 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

I tried cycling the key like you said and it did not help it to start easier. How would I determine which is the return line? I am very new at this and don't know if it would connect more towards the top of the engine or a bit lower. Other update: When I was just trying to figure that out, I noticed that the lines were pretty compressible (this is hours since I last turned it on). It was easy to squeeze them and when I did so, I could hear the fuel slosh in the rails. I decided to see if I could feel a difference after priming it. Both lines were quite stiff after that. I decided to try the gauge again but it still read 0 PSI.


webbwbb
User

Nov 28, 2014, 5:08 PM

Post #18 of 23 (1898 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Update: I talked to a mechanically inclined neighbor who recommended that we remove the fuel rails and clean them out with brake parts cleaner. I was going to post here for an opinion on that idea after this semester ended (only one more week!) This past week has been pretty cold, it has dipped into the lower 40s some, and it has had no trouble. It starts within a half second of me turning the key. Any ideas on why it would suddenly have such a massive change?


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 28, 2014, 11:20 PM

Post #19 of 23 (1891 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Oh boy - if you have NO problem now you probably aren't going to find much that did this. It's really over and just want to say to clean out fuel parts I wouldn't use brake cleaner but rather carb/throttle body cleaners if wanted to do that. Brake cleaner sprays and such are not flammable or far less flammable than fuel cleaning products.


BTW - 40F isn't cold to a car it is to YOU but they do notice in some ways. About now I look forward to 40F days or better and not long wont see that for a few months,


T



Hammer Time
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Nov 29, 2014, 7:18 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1880 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In


Quote
Brake cleaner sprays and such are not flammable or far less flammable than fuel cleaning products.


I can drive a car into the shop on Brakekleen alone and do it all the time. It is very flammable.


I've been known to use a can as a flamethrower occasionally too.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Nov 29, 2014, 7:18 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 29, 2014, 7:52 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1873 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

? Stuff may vary? Tested some a while ago and one at least wouldn't burn at all. I think I have some by the brand name Brakleen and see what it does.


If the product is the same as carb cleaners guess I don't need both as either behave like lacquer thinner to me,


T



Hammer Time
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Nov 29, 2014, 8:07 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1869 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

I think the carb cleaner is a bit more oily.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 29, 2014, 8:28 AM

Post #23 of 23 (1867 views)
Re: 95 Olds Cutlass Supreme - Slow Start when it gets cold Sign In

Just tested now. Brand, "BRAKLEEN" does NOT burn no matter how hard I tried. AutoZone's brand was a flame thrower!


Everything was a while ago but recall a product that just a few drop would render a flammable like pure gasoline inert or not flammable such that you could braze over a leaky gas tank - still dry off vehicle metal tank it worked! Must dry all vapor of anything left in a tank to be able to burn anything in it. Not even sure they sell that stuff anymore but witnessed it done to exactly a gas tank to do as said, braze over a crack that leaked,


T


(edit) > Totally read containers. They are different by brand. Brakleen uses CO2 as the propellent other doesn't. I only bring this us as I find using brand name product that is MARKED NON FLAMMABLE is more effective at finding vacuum leaks and near zero risk of fire. Has a reason and use. If used to clean fuel parts to be re-used it must be totally dried out....



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Nov 29, 2014, 8:52 AM)






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