|
|
95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 25, 2011, 6:36 PM
Post #1 of 29
(5750 views)
|
|
95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
1995
Mercury
Grand Marquis
4.6 engine
136,000
Yes this is the same car that last week blew a stoplight fuse and wouldn't shift out of Park due to a interface system between the brakes and the transmission.
Well the car was just fine for 2 days and Saturday morning when leaving town for Christmas the car wouldn't stay running until it warmed up, and again this morning it did the same thing. After discussing this over an eggnog or two with a nephew that is somewhat car savy it was suggested/ guessed that it might have something to do with the Mass Airflow Sensor, is this possible or what do you think? My problem is that it's a 95 and I understand you can't scan for this problem.
BigJohn
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 25, 2011, 7:07 PM
Post #2 of 29
(5728 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Is your check engine light coming on at all?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 25, 2011, 7:16 PM
Post #3 of 29
(5721 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Hammer Time:
NO
(This post was edited by bigjohn on Dec 25, 2011, 7:16 PM)
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 25, 2011, 7:17 PM
Post #4 of 29
(5718 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
I would first check for any vacuum leaks or leaks in the intake snorkel and then get a fuel pressure gauge and see what the fuel pressure is when this happens.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 25, 2011, 7:29 PM
Post #5 of 29
(5710 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Sure I'll do my best to check into that, I do know that the 3 rubber shock mount bolts are broken on the air intake box.
P.S. the car runs fine when warm on two occasions I warmed it up and then drove over 200 miles!
(This post was edited by bigjohn on Dec 25, 2011, 7:31 PM)
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 26, 2011, 3:38 PM
Post #6 of 29
(5662 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
I looked for any loose or cracked/ broken vacuum lines, nothing. It has what the guy at the auto parts store called an OB2 computer system but no codes are stored. I'm not familiar with your term "intake snorkel" what and where is this? I did find a plug wire that had only one side of the clip snugged down to the coil pack but this happened well into the warm up time and I'm not sure if it helped to push the plug wire further on or if it was the spreading of the warmth that caused it to run better. I'll let it cool down and check to see if any improvements have occurred.
I might add that this all started just after I filled up with gas for the trip the night before at Sams Club, I'm thinking that it would keep on if the gas was bad and as for water in the batch of gas all the ethanol in the gas we buy should take care of that.
(This post was edited by bigjohn on Dec 26, 2011, 3:41 PM)
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 26, 2011, 3:45 PM
Post #7 of 29
(5659 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Lety me know when you have the fuel pressure reading.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
|
|
| |
|
|
way2old
Veteran
/ Moderator
Dec 26, 2011, 5:53 PM
Post #8 of 29
(5647 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Try giving the car a little gas when you start it. If it continues to run, I would suspect the Air Idle Control Valve. You can also try turning the key to the "on" position about 3 times before you start it. If it starts easily and stays running, the fuel pump is either starting to get weak or the fuel filter may be starting to plug.
Being way2old is why I need help from younger minds
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 26, 2011, 8:37 PM
Post #9 of 29
(5630 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
I'm going to Harbor Freight in the morning to purchase a fuel pressure gauge and I'll let you know the results. I let the engine cool again and the problem remains.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 26, 2011, 8:40 PM
Post #10 of 29
(5632 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
The fuel filter was replaced about 1 year ago, and the old one was in place for 15 years. Not to say it's impossible but it doesn't seam likely.
|
|
| |
|
|
Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 27, 2011, 5:43 AM
Post #11 of 29
(5616 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Fuel filter: The ethanol in gas in most places has chiefly stopped the gas stations from filtering fuel before you pump it AND it does suspend junk in the station's tanks rather than just sit on the bottom so you are now relying on your own fuel filter more than ever.
Nobody is (well never say never) adding water on purpose to "cheat" as gas stations but plain condensation gets in tanks (theirs) and pre ethanol days we used to "stick" tanks with a paste that showed how much water was at the bottom and at a certain level then you called a special truck to take out the junk on the bottom. Certain junk isn't even water but just junk of who knows what from handling, delivery and deteriorating tanks.
You said this began with one fill up so it's suspect. Good grief for the cost of a fuel filter just replace it anyway and dump out the car's inlet side into a clean glass jar and look! You may be shocked.
I've seen the junk from working at full serve gas stations pool before it drains past the flapper meant to prevent use of "leaded" gas into unleaded vehicles back in those old days and shocked to see the junk!
Best then and now and to this day will NOT fuel up if the gas station is getting fuel as it's really mixing the mess up like classic Italian salad dressing when you shake the bottle.
It's not a guess - I've seen it so rule that out now that you have a problem,
T
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 27, 2011, 1:58 PM
Post #12 of 29
(5599 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Hammer Time:
Well I got myself a fuel pump pressure tester and went ahead and tested my pressure it read 32 to 33 PSI at an idle. Now what?
The items I've had mentioned to me to consider as the problem are the Mass Air Flow Sensor, The Idle Air Control Valve ( IAC ) , or the Coolant Temp. sensor, How can I eliminate any of these?
(This post was edited by bigjohn on Dec 27, 2011, 3:12 PM)
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 27, 2011, 3:59 PM
Post #13 of 29
(5585 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Was the car acting up while you were checking the pressure?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 27, 2011, 5:58 PM
Post #14 of 29
(5576 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
It was partially warmed up and it would stay running in park, but if I tried to shift it into gear without racing the engine it would have died.
I could try it again when it's completely cold, that's when it runs the poorest. In the morning I have to take my wife to the hospital for treatment and I'll be home about noon, I'll let it cool for a couple hours and then test it about 2:30 PM Central Time and post right after. Let me know if you don't need me to do this.
(This post was edited by bigjohn on Dec 27, 2011, 6:06 PM)
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 27, 2011, 6:04 PM
Post #15 of 29
(5572 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
That could be your problem. That is about 7 to 10PSI below what it should be.
Key On Engine Off 35 - 40 psi Key On Engine Running 30 - 45 psi
When you accelerate it should get higher and if it doesn't, you will get symptoms as you describe. I would try pinching off the return line momentarily and that should cause the pressure to spike well over 50PSI. If it doesn't, then it would mean the pump is maxed out at the lower pressure.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 27, 2011, 6:49 PM
Post #16 of 29
(5564 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Keep in mind I got my fuel pump pressure tester from Harbor Freight. I'll try pinching the return line if I can locate it. Would a fuel pump go out instantly like this, as we had no symptoms the day before and then wham it wont stay running?
|
|
| |
|
|
Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 27, 2011, 7:39 PM
Post #17 of 29
(5558 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Can any electric anything just quit - yes. Fuel pumps don't like getting hot which can happen when fuel level is low or worse running out.
Laugh on your Harbor Freight comment. No walk in stores around here but used to get some assorted junk from them - talk about cheap!
T
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 28, 2011, 1:46 PM
Post #18 of 29
(5530 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Hammer Time:
I can't locate the return fuel line you mentioned I should pinch, can you guide me? Also the Idle Air Control Valve is eluding me, I just cant find anything that looks like the online pictures I've seen. I did find the coolant temp sensor it appears to be located on the intake 2 inches behind and 2 inches over from the alternator.
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2011, 2:02 PM
Post #19 of 29
(5522 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
There are 2 lines going to the fuel rail, one in, one out. The out is the smaller of the 2. There are 2 fuel lines going all the way back to the tank.
Here is the IAC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 28, 2011, 2:02 PM)
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 28, 2011, 2:25 PM
Post #20 of 29
(5515 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Starting it cold I got about 13 to 14 psi, but the gauge leaked a little so that may have affected my results. Do you think I should replace the fuel filter and cross my fingers and hope it improves?
|
|
| |
|
|
Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2011, 2:52 PM
Post #21 of 29
(5511 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
I don't think it would run at all at that pressure so IMO that's just not a good reading. Try just key on, engine off as you should test it both ways but need to know at least that much.
Rumor has it some major parts outlets rent pressure gauges - IDK as I never have rented a tool. If that tool is NG get another or if it's you not using it properly learn how it's supposed to work,
T
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 28, 2011, 2:56 PM
Post #22 of 29
(5506 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
I found the two lines, they are both the same size but what worries me the most is they have tubing that has hardened and wont allow me to squeeze without damaging. Another issue the rubber tubing slides back and forth on the steel tubes that it couples to, there is a system of plastic clamps that have very small zip ties holding the tubing on to the steel but one of the zip ties is broken.
|
|
| |
|
|
Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 28, 2011, 2:58 PM
Post #23 of 29
(5502 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
Those a push/lock connectors. Don't worry, they aren't coming apart.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Dec 28, 2011, 3:29 PM
Post #24 of 29
(5497 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
My cheap gauge isn't working properly and no one rents on in the area, time for plan B get it checked at a local shop.
|
|
| |
|
|
bigjohn
User
Jan 3, 2012, 3:47 PM
Post #25 of 29
(5443 views)
|
|
Re: 95 Merc Grand Marquis wont stay running until warm
|
Sign In
|
|
It turns out the IAC was the major part of the problem, The tech at a local Ford garage found it causing RPM 1/2 of spec. and improved its operation with some cleaning but I've ordered a new one. In addition to the IAC he found the Mass airflow sensor to be operating 20 HZ below spec., That part I've delayed purchasing until I have the new IAC installed.
(This post was edited by bigjohn on Jan 3, 2012, 3:59 PM)
|
|
| |
|
Auto Repair Home
SEARCH
WHO'S 
LOG 
mdma pills for sale : WhatsApp +33758633852
Drive Shaft Repair
2006 Toyoto Camry XLE Driver Side Electric Window Trouble
Grounding Cable, 2017 Jeep Renegade Trailhawk
equipment
1
