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88 tracer starting issues
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 23, 2013, 11:57 AM
Post #1 of 14
(2647 views)
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88 tracer starting issues
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hi. i have an 88 tracer. it has 60,000 miles. its a 1.6 motor fuel injection. around a year ago, filled up with gas, pulled out of station, car died. it would start back up and idle fine. as soon as throttle was touched it would die. it would restart and idle fine. as soon as it was put into gear, it would die.
have since moved twice and had to have car towed. now it wont even start. i pulled the gas out of it cuz it sat for so long and it was a dark orange color.
I was also told that it sounded like a failing fuel pump.
*i replaced fuel pump and the vehicle wouldnt start.
*next, checked fuel pressure from fuel filter, in line, with fuel rail.
*then checked fuel pressure from fuel filter to pressure guage as dead end pressure.
*next i pulled each plug and and attached their respective plug wire. grounding the plug and checked each plug one at a time. each plug attached to plug wire and grounded, all had spark.
still wouldnt start
*I then looked for fuel pump relay. i found it, by the ecm and next to the idle up relay. the ecm has 3 connectors.
*i unplugged them to get to the fuel pump relay.
*i unpluged the fuel pump relay. *took cover of relay off.
*i looked for any pits and smelled for burnt odor.
*i found it looked fine and there was no burnt odor.
*i put cover back on and reinstalled the fuel pump relay.
*i reconnected the 3 connectors to the ecm.
*i turned the moter over and held my fingers on fuel pump relay. it clicked when turning ignition to start and clicked when ignition turned back to on/run.
*i turnded over while observing engine compartment.
*i heard mass air flow vane make some noise. i disconnected it and reconnected.
*i started car and it fired. it idled fine.
*i wanted to see if it would die if rpm's were increased as before.
*i increased rpm's and the the rpm's increased without incident.
i believed i had found problem simply from disconnecting the connector from air flow meter. i was very happy the car was running.
*i was able to start vehicle just turning key.
*the vehicle started everytime for the next 20 minutes.
*later that afternoon i tried starting vehicle, and it would not start.
*i hadn't done anything to it.
*i figured since it fired when i unplugged and plugged air flow meter connector back in that it must have something to do with air flow meter.
*i removed air flow meter from vehicle
*i pulled cover from top and seen what appeared to be broken solder on some of the solder points.
*i bought new air flow meter
*after installing airflow meter, vehicle fired right up,
*it idled fine, rpms could be increased withou incident.
*i turned ignition off and back on and the vehicle fired up eack time.
*again very happy that problem seemed to be solved.
*i went into house and began ordering all the basic tune-up stuff.(oil,filter,plugs,cap,rotor,antifreeze,etc.)
*i went back out later, early evening and he vehicle would NOT start.
*i had not touched the vehicle after it had run earlier that day. i had not ordered the tune up stuff yet. i hadnt done any thing at all since it had fired.
*i am stumped.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 23, 2013, 12:38 PM
Post #2 of 14
(2628 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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What is the fuel pressure when it doesn't want to start?
Do you have injector pulse when it doesn't want to start?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 23, 2013, 1:17 PM
Post #3 of 14
(2612 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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I don't know. will run tests for pressure/ and injector pulse this afternoon. thanks for responding so quickly
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 25, 2013, 1:44 PM
Post #4 of 14
(2565 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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I have the shop manual for this vehicle, and it instructed me to test pressure in line with fuel filter and fuel rail. It requires a tee which I have and used. the pressure in line with fuel filter and fuel rail is 38. the pressure dropped to 36 after 5 minutes.
The next test says to disconnect the vacuum line from the pressure regulator and plug it. I did just that and got the same pressure of 38.
So the service manual calls for the first test to be 28 to 32 and its 38
And he next test Vacuum line disconnected and plugged to be 36 to 42. which would be anywhere from a 4 to 10 increase in pressure. It didn't increase at all and stayed at 38.
i'm not sure what this means. is the pump bad because its 6 over what is being asked or.? is the regulator bad because when vacuum line is disconnected and plugged there is no change?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 25, 2013, 1:49 PM
Post #5 of 14
(2564 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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It just means the car wasn't running when you tested it. Those lower pressure are after the car is running.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 26, 2013, 4:29 AM
Post #6 of 14
(2542 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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ok. so I disconnected an injector connector. I probed both sides with a grounded test light. it was my understanding that only one side would illuminate. while the other side would not, until the ignition was turned to start the that one would flash. but when I probed the connector, both sides illuminated with the ignition in the on position. what does that mean. ? and should I push this thing off a cliff?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 26, 2013, 4:32 AM
Post #7 of 14
(2541 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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Again......... this is due to the way you ran your test. You left the injector plugged in and the ground side was reading through the injector to the power side. It has to be unplugged to see the correct signals.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 26, 2013, 7:16 AM
Post #8 of 14
(2536 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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I do not know how much clearer I can be. I disconnected the injector connector. I did not leave it connected to run this test.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 26, 2013, 7:39 AM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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In just checked the wiring diagram and your injectors are wired in pairs 1/2 3/4 so the corresponding injector has to be unplugged also.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 26, 2013, 7:47 AM
Post #10 of 14
(2532 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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ok thanks. I do appreciate all the assistance. I have never had so much trouble with a vehicle. 88, 89....2 year wonder.... thank you for all the input. I am sure hoping something goes right on this car.
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 26, 2013, 4:30 PM
Post #11 of 14
(2528 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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so with the injectors 1 and 2 disconnected I was turning the ignition to the on position to test injector connectors, I accidentally hit start. the car fired. I immediately turned it off. I reconnected the 1 and 2 injector connectors..i started the car and it idled. fuel pressure was between 32 and 35. while running, I disconnected the vacuum line at the pressure regulator, and pressure went to 40. I raised the rpms and it didn't die. I turned the motor off and noted the time and fuel pressure. . .
35 when turned off
30 minutes later pressure was 34
30 minutes later pressure was 30
30 minutes later pressure was 25
I started the motor again and it started and idled. pressure was 32 to 35.
I turned it off and it showed 30 to 32
an hour later the pressure was 28
I then quit for the day. I figured, after reading about codes, and not affording the super tester, that I would follow the steps for testing with an analog test meter.
So can you tell me if the fuel pressures seem right?. are the pressure drops acceptable? are there any other things that I may have missed?, not tested for? anything at all that will help keep my mother's car from being towed .
I appreciate any and all pointers, advice and thank you in advance for all your help.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 26, 2013, 4:36 PM
Post #12 of 14
(2527 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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Those numbers are fine but, the car was running and apparently the problem wasn't present at the time. I would try manipulating around the wiring harness while the engine is idling to see if you can trigger something.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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richardcarson1
Novice
Jul 26, 2013, 5:21 PM
Post #13 of 14
(2523 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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I am going to do just that. do you think, so I don't lose track of the different systems, there is any order or routes, starting points I should follow.? And should I ( since it started), try to get codes first?(in case I screw it up and cant get it started again...? ...
any order?
routes?
starting points?
And again, I sooo appreciate the help, advise, and the direction....sometimes in my haste, or losing site of the correct troubleshooting steps, I forget to keep on track. I forget what it was I originally was setting out to do and before too long, I'm frustrated and back to step one. so is good to have this forum. and the help. keeps me focused.
thanks...
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 26, 2013, 5:26 PM
Post #14 of 14
(2521 views)
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Re: 88 tracer starting issues
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The goal here is to do quick checks and quickly isolate which function is dropping out whether it be spark, fuel pressure or injector pulse. Then you try to determine what is triggering it.
If you can find the trigger, then you may be able to initiate the failure.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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