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22re poor mpg


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chas
User

Mar 20, 2017, 9:06 PM

Post #1 of 20 (574 views)
  post locked   22re poor mpg  

picked up a clean 94 toyota pickup 2wd with the 22re 5spd.
it sat for a while.
starts and runs good, lots of pep even in 3rd gear but seems to be heavy on fuel.
could be a lot of things like an old CAT, dirty TB, TPS and goes on.
timing is at 5degree specs with the paper clip jump from T1 to E1 in the diagnosis box.
there are no dash warning lights on like the CEL.
first things i was maybe going to do is clean all the sensors, replace the TPS and get the CAT looked at.
i suspect the TPS because it is the 23 year old orignal.
any other suggestions where to look?


Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 20, 2017, 11:29 PM

Post #2 of 20 (563 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

How long did it sit - it matters. Super check frame rust situation! Toyota recalled a couple model years of these around those years.


Other - what MPG do you actually get - a real # based on a couple checks not a guess or disgust that it only get's 10-15 even real could be normal - it's a truck not a car.
I wouldn't just go tossing parts rather check them. Tune up items and clean up yes and fluid changes.
"Converter" on these. Check it don't guess. Most common issue was the neck rusted at gasketed connection can be dealt with most of the time,


T



chas
User

Mar 21, 2017, 1:34 AM

Post #3 of 20 (552 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


In Reply To
How long did it sit - it matters. Super check frame rust situation! Toyota recalled a couple model years of these around those years.


Other - what MPG do you actually get - a real # based on a couple checks not a guess or disgust that it only get's 10-15 even real could be normal - it's a truck not a car.
I wouldn't just go tossing parts rather check them. Tune up items and clean up yes and fluid changes.
"Converter" on these. Check it don't guess. Most common issue was the neck rusted at gasketed connection can be dealt with most of the time,


T

T>>>>>How long did it sit - it matters.
C>>>>>not sure. Maybe years. no rust. It ran but kind of funny. Fuel filter was full of water. Opened fuel filter after a few hundred miles to check for water again in tank. No water.
T>>>>>what MPG do you actually get. 10-15 even real could be normal
C>>>>>drinks 5gallons in 100miles on local short around town hops and maybe a few short hops on the freeway. It's drinking too much. Maybe choke is staying on too long. Not throwing any CEL codes on the dash panel.
Other toyo 22re i have had did much better. I guess the only way to be sure is to do the cleanups, converter, TPS and TB check.
I had a toyo 22re that had a bad TPS. Started ok but idled funny and feel a surge in low gear. CEL would come on every week or 2. Pulled positive battery cable, clear old codes and reset. CEL went out but repeats. Finally replaced TPS with a new one. TPS will be on the to do list. Not cheap. @$91 at my local stores. Aaarghh. Might get it cheaper online + S&H. If it has a problem or sent the wrong one need to call C/S.




Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 21, 2017, 3:49 AM

Post #4 of 20 (548 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

! How is it that you don't know how long it sat?
Forget the MPG you have codes you are resetting so what do you expect? Water in fuel must be from really sitting a long time. Almost all fuel sold has some ethanol in it which will burn thru water if there by condensation and will even so and be it's own problem. Even when and if you get this running as well as one just like it don't expect it to get identical MPG. Tires alone can be the difference and fuels are not the same seasonally about anywhere.


Why are you replacing the TPS? Check it first it's probably not that just maybe the wiring to it. You only need a DVOM or just an ohm meter not even with engine on or running it's just a dimmer switch type of thing by position of throttle you can do by hand and watch it. Any spikes or drops in the range it has a problem. If not it's wiring to it or plain wet somewhere. Corroded connections only take moisture when OE grease is gone long ago.


Quit resetting codes by positive cable too do that with negative cable or if you mess up you short out tools or something on the truck. You really don't or shouldn't want to do that as if problem is fixed it would go out on its own.


Do you really have a carb on this or does it just look like it. I'm not looking it up as these were switch years and can't know for sure what it came with nor the settings without a hard look. They are a special kind of headache in those years and hate water and sitting wet with even fuel.


1994 - rubber hoses and diaphragms all about it are probably leaking or inoperative now unless already done they don't last that long,


T



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 21, 2017, 3:52 AM)


Hammer Time
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Mar 21, 2017, 5:10 AM

Post #5 of 20 (542 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


Quote
drinks 5gallons in 100miles on local short around town hops and maybe a few short hops on the freeway



You're getting 20 MPG on short trips from a 23 year old car. What do you expect?
Stop messing with it before you create a real problem.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Mar 21, 2017, 7:30 AM

Post #6 of 20 (530 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


Quote
first things i was maybe going to do is clean all the sensors


How do you clean sensors? I don't recall any procedures for cleaning sensors. Why do you suspect the cat being a culprit of bad fuel economy?





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chas
User

Mar 21, 2017, 10:59 AM

Post #7 of 20 (512 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

Tom>>>>> How is it that you don't know how long it sat?
chas>>>>>bought it form a private party. Just told me it sat. Just a guess because of all the water in the fuel filter. Replaced the filter. Drove it around for awhile then opened the filter again to check for water. Looks like there is no more water or very little in the tank or filter. Got most of it out. Maybe that's why they parked it because it had a water problem leading them to think it was a bad head gasket or other problems. Maybe took it to a mechanic and got a bad diagnosis like head gasket repair $$$$$. Park it and sat. Over the years water may have filled the filter from lack of maintanence. Fuel filter was one of the first things i checked because they are so often ignored or forgotten maintenance.

Tom>>>>>Why are you replacing the TPS? Check it first it's probably not that just maybe the wiring to it.
chas>>>>>because it might be the original at 23yrs old and sat along time. It has a diode or electronic components that fail. It was just an idea. I'll check it first.

Tom>>>>>If not it's wiring to it or plain wet somewhere. Corroded connections only take moisture when OE grease is gone long ago.
chas>>>>>everything looks good. It's unmolested in original factory condition. It runs really good with lots of pep with A/C and no P/S. Runs better than my other 94 22re.

Tom>>>>>Quit resetting codes by positive cable too do that with negative cable or if you mess up you short out tools or something on the truck. You really don't or shouldn't want to do that as if problem is fixed it would go out on its own.
chas>>>>>not sure what you mean. don't do that or use negative to reset?

Tom>>>>>Do you really have a carb on this or does it just look like it.
chas>>>>>it has EFI. Carbs were legislated out maybe 86-88 on all cars and small trucks.

Tom>>>>>1994 - rubber hoses and diaphragms all about it are probably leaking or inoperative now unless already done they don't last that long,
chas>>>>>not sure where you are going? all vacuum hoses under hood are good. If it was the fuel pump it would not run. No pressure to the filter and fuel rails.
Fuel pressure regulator would be dumping fuel out the back of the fuel rail with a bad diaphram. Not sure what you mean. Which fuel diaphrams are you talking about?

hammer>>>>>You're getting 20 MPG on short trips from a 23 year old car. What do you expect?
Stop messing with it before you create a real problem.
chas>>>>>i have another 94 22re i have had for almost 4yrs. It gets really good MPG with a new TPS about 1yr ago with the same driving habits. I picked up this up because its in nice condition. My other 22re pickup was abused. Needs some more work, cosmetics and paint. Doesn't run as good as the recent buy.

Discreet>>>>>Why do you suspect the cat being a culprit of bad fuel economy?
chas>>>>>because it might be the original with 88,000miles at 23 yrs old. It might be rotten.
A lot of opinions say a bad CAT will or will not effect MPG. That doesn't make sense. If it is old, rotten and clogged it could be a culprit to poor mpg.

link deleted ..................... not allowed



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 21, 2017, 2:03 PM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 21, 2017, 11:17 AM

Post #8 of 20 (500 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

If the catalyst was melted and or clogged, which caused an exhaust restriction, you would have major loss of power.

Substrates don't rot like fruit. If you suspect a restriction in the catalyst you could screw a back pressure gauge into the O2 sensor hole and see if you have excessive back pressure.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 21, 2017, 11:45 AM

Post #9 of 20 (497 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

This is going nowhere. If you want to toss a TPS because it's old go for it. There's no know life expectancy for those that I know of.


MPG - You aren't checking properly - no way it's a pig and you check it full to full again and how far it went not wild guessing.


Water? If it got to the filter it's harming tank, lines and fuel system parts unknown if fixable or wrecked?


T



kev2
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Mar 21, 2017, 3:41 PM

Post #10 of 20 (484 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

My 2 cents - is engine reaching temperature?
I Often see lower rated or removal of this primary sensor.
Other than that be happy with the 20+ MPG on an old dependable vehicle


chas
User

Mar 29, 2017, 8:21 PM

Post #11 of 20 (431 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

yes IAC working properly untill operating temp. other than the O2 sensor or the TPS i dont know what it could be. TB idle/air works, no air leaks, CEL is not coming on and plenty of pep straight on down to the floor in 3rd. Something is talking to the ECU-1 sending it into a default rich mode.


(This post was edited by chas on Mar 29, 2017, 8:24 PM)


Hammer Time
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Mar 30, 2017, 2:47 AM

Post #12 of 20 (417 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


Quote
Something is talking to the ECU-1 sending it into a default rich mode.


I don't know where you get these ideas. It's certainly not true. You're getting 20+ MPG



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



chas
User

Mar 30, 2017, 8:37 AM

Post #13 of 20 (402 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


In Reply To

Quote
Something is talking to the ECU-1 sending it into a default rich mode.


I don't know where you get these ideas. It's certainly not true. You're getting 20+ MPG>>>>>


i dunno H, i have another 22re that gets great mpg. I drove it for a short time when the CEL light on. I think fuel economy suffered a little. I suspected the TPS or maybe a clogged fuel filter because it had been acting a little strange for awhile throwing the CEL light. The fuel filter is real PITA to get to. You need to remove the right front wheel, jack it up on a jack stand, drop the starter then get in where it is a little dark under the EFI with 2 12mm bolts, a 17mm to remove the in/out fuel banjo lines then pull it out to check if it is plugged and full of water. There is no other way unless you have the EFI or pentium off.
Got it diagnosed first. It was the TPS. Changed out the TPS and checked the fuel filter. When a code is being thrown on the 22re ECU-1 i guess it goes into default mode. Maybe that is what happened when the CEL light came on. Something is wrong with this 22re in question.



(This post was edited by chas on Mar 30, 2017, 9:03 AM)


kev2
Veteran
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Mar 30, 2017, 8:42 AM

Post #14 of 20 (398 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

20 mpg is great milage on a young vehicle like this.
Do not assume no CEL means no code..
I mentioned ECT - as a often seen issue what is your operating temp?
You should look at acquiring a scanner with live data if you are determined to 'dig deep into computer controls'


chas
User

Mar 30, 2017, 8:59 AM

Post #15 of 20 (396 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


In Reply To
20 mpg is great milage on a young vehicle like this.
Do not assume no CEL means no code..
I mentioned ECT - as a often seen issue what is your operating temp?
You should look at acquiring a scanner with live data if you are determined to 'dig deep into computer controls'>>>>


>>>>>20 mpg is great milage on a young vehicle like this.<<<< no its not. My othere 22re gets great MPG.
IAC and operating temp is normal.
>>>>>You should look at acquiring a scanner with live data<<<<< umm Kev, this is a pre 96 ECU-1. there is no scanner. Scanners and the plug-in box were 96 and up. If i remember correct to diagnosis a CEL code on this you need to
a)engine off
b)key on
c)cross jump the T1 and E1 in the diagnosis box next to the fuse box under the hood then count the long and short blinks on the CEL light then refer to a chart for the fix.



(This post was edited by chas on Mar 30, 2017, 9:01 AM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 30, 2017, 1:29 PM

Post #16 of 20 (383 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

You can't expect the condition of a 23 year old vehicle to be comparable with anything. The insides are far different now than when it was new. Compression is different. Valve timing is different, exhaust system is different.

Different vehicles wear in different ways.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



chas
User

Mar 31, 2017, 8:57 AM

Post #17 of 20 (359 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  


In Reply To
You can't expect the condition of a 23 year old vehicle to be comparable with anything. The insides are far different now than when it was new. Compression is different. Valve timing is different, exhaust system is different.

Different vehicles wear in different ways.>>>>>>

true, alot of things have changed with auto technology.
It doesn't explain why one 94 22re gets lousy mpg and the other 94 22re gets great mpg. They are identicle except for the EGR. The only difference i could find was the VSV valve for the EGR.
One has the VSV vacuum solonoid on the valve cover controlled by an electronic pulse with a 2 wire plug-in from the ECU to open and close with the throttle.
The other has a coolent temp controlled VSV vacuum valve under the TB.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 31, 2017, 9:36 AM

Post #18 of 20 (349 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

No, they are no longer identical. They have been driver for 23 years.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



chas
User

Apr 14, 2017, 9:15 PM

Post #19 of 20 (305 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

been thinkin' about this. obd1 pre 1996 ECU were known to be a problem. They did not catch all problems and codes. They did not have a plugin scanner to find the problem as easy as the 1996 and newer.
Any 22re owners out there with the same problem of run ok but fuel consumption seems to be high and what did you do to fix it?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 15, 2017, 4:27 AM

Post #20 of 20 (290 views)
  post locked   Re: 22re poor mpg  

This thread has run it's course now. You are trying to chase down a problem that doesn't exist.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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