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2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns


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loachuck
Novice

May 19, 2018, 11:35 AM

Post #1 of 13 (444 views)
2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

Hoping to get some help here as I'm at my wits end with this truck - experiencing random/intermittent stalls and forced engine shutdowns. No real pattern on when it occurs, sometimes it does it's thing on first startup, other times not. The truck runs smooth as silk when it's NOT stalling. When it does stall/shutdown, I turn the key off & start back up - sometimes it returns to normal right away, sometimes it takes 3 or 4 cycles of key on off cycles. Thankfully, moving the gear selector to neutral and key off & restarting while moving is possible. Currently starts right up but dies immediately, takes about 3 times to remain running. Truck has 99,150 miles.

I have an Autel Diaglink Code Reader scan tool, the Ford service manuals AND the PC/ED loaded onto a laptop.

I have replaced a ton of parts through this process, which I don't mind so much because they're mostly all parts I would be replacing eventually anyway (I purchased this vehicle used 14 months ago). Seems to be fuel delivery related, but could realistically be ANYTHING. Here's the list of items replaced so far - Spark Plugs, Coil Packs, Air & Fuel Filters, PCM, EGR Valve, MAF, All 4 O2 Sensors, Alternator, Serpentine Belt, Pulley & Tensioner Assembly, Fuel Pump, Battery, throttle body complete assembly, fuel injectors, accelerator pedal, fuel rail pressure/temp sensor, FPDM, CMP, CKP, IFS. Many of these parts were as a result of what I would consider "phantom DTCs" as none of the parts have solved the problem.

I'm sure this is going to be something completely ridiculous and simple - IF and when it's ever resolved! The most common DTCs that appear after shutdowns are as follows: P0600, P061B, P2105, P2107 and of course, many instances of O2 sensor rich, lean, stuck codes.

The P0600 points directly to a bad PCM which is the first thing I replaced when this first started a year ago. Since then, I have swapped the old with the new several times to no avail, resulting in the same behavior more or less each time - the truck seems to like the original PCM better than the new updated calibration PCM.
I live in a remote area so the truck doesn't get driven a lot. This doesn't help because every time I clear the codes, it takes forever for the PCM to re-learn - this is a patience issue and I'm just about out of it!!!

Have checked and re-attached the main grounds, checked fuses, relays and circuits and have yet to find anything that makes any difference. Have just recently found the fuel pressure mechanically tested low compared to the fuel pressure reported by the FPTS on the rail, which would make sense because when the vehicle does it's thing, it does seem to be starving for fuel. Well, replaced the FPTS and got excited when I just happened to reset the IFS and observed the fuel pressure to be MUCH more stable and responsive - it runs absolutely perfect and better than ever as a result of the replacement of all these parts. However, upon taking the next test drive, to my disappointment, the same engine shutdown behavior happened again (with the IFS circuit jumped). One other item of note - occasionally the shutdown will be preceeded by the transmission being totally disengaged. All of this behavior goes away after one (usually, sometimes 2 or 3) off/on key cycles.

I've spent a lot of time studying/learning the wiring diagrams and checking electrical connections, fuses, relays, ripping apart the wiring harness, etc. One thing I don't understand is the amp draw into the BJB, normal with no extras running, is under 10 amps. The puzzling part of this is the PCM relay (which is rated at 40 amps continuous) is only pulling 5 to 5.5 amps and it gets quite warm after a bit, bordering on hot after a while - have measured up to 125 degrees on it. It doesn't make sense to me that a relay rated for 40 amps continuous can get that hot w/5 amps of draw - just my humble opinion and the reason for the time I've spent so much time checking wiring.

Never experienced anything like this in my life, and is very stressful because the random, unexpected shutdowns are potentially very dangerous out in traffic. I'm not holding out much hope this can be resolved, but I am still hopeful - there's GOT to be a solution!!

Any help at all will be greatly appreciated.

(This post was edited by loachuck on May 19, 2018, 2:44 PM)


Hammer Time
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May 19, 2018, 12:20 PM

Post #2 of 13 (434 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

A couple of those codes are pointing directly to an internal PCM failure. The symptoms tend to indicate that also, assuming you have already verified all the power and grounds into the PCM.



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Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

May 19, 2018, 12:22 PM

Post #3 of 13 (432 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In


Quote
It doesn't make sense to me that a breaker rated for 40 amps continuous can get that hot w/5 amps of draw - just my humble opinion and the reason for the time I've spent so much time checking wiring.


It would if there was high resistance in those contacts causing a voltage drop.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



loachuck
Novice

May 19, 2018, 1:12 PM

Post #4 of 13 (428 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

Thanks Hammer Time
1) Note same behavior with new and old PCM - that's why I went with that first
2) Same results with at least 3 other relays


(This post was edited by loachuck on May 19, 2018, 2:51 PM)


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

May 19, 2018, 1:15 PM

Post #5 of 13 (424 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

You probably should be doing some voltage drop testing.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



loachuck
Novice

May 19, 2018, 1:26 PM

Post #6 of 13 (420 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

No voltage drops detected to PCM, or anywhere for that matter. Freeze frame data shows 14.1 supply voltage.


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

May 19, 2018, 1:32 PM

Post #7 of 13 (416 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

If that is all you are relying on it doesn't mean much. That monitors only one circuit of many. Ypu should do a voltage drop on at least the circuit with that 40A fuse.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



loachuck
Novice

May 19, 2018, 1:42 PM

Post #8 of 13 (412 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

I'm not relying on that at all - have extensively tested/monitored the voltage and amperage from the relay to the 15 amp PCM fuse - that's why I ripped into the harness to check the large amount of splices on this circuit.


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

May 19, 2018, 1:47 PM

Post #9 of 13 (408 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

Measuring current draw is not the same as voltage drop testing. There would be no need to open up harnesses for testing if you just did a voltage drop on the entire line. Any more than .5v reading would justify looking for a problem.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



loachuck
Novice

May 19, 2018, 2:31 PM

Post #10 of 13 (404 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

I have checked for drop on only a few of the easiest to access - PCM, MAF & EGR. The rest (more difficult to access) do still need to be checked.Would you consider the heat buildup in the relay to be abnormal with only 5 amp current, possibly a result of high resistance somewhere on the circuit in question? If so, is this where you would focus to eliminate this as a possibility?
Thanks Hammer Time


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 19, 2018, 2:38 PM

Post #11 of 13 (400 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

That's what i said in my first response.

Relay? You called it a breaker in the first response.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



loachuck
Novice

May 19, 2018, 2:40 PM

Post #12 of 13 (396 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

My mistake - relay is what I meant to say


loachuck
Novice

May 26, 2018, 12:02 PM

Post #13 of 13 (320 views)
Re: 2007 Ford E150 4.6L - Hard Starts - Random Shutdowns Sign In

OK, have pretty much given up on the voltage drop and electrical issues as I just cannot find ANYTHING. Swapped over to my newer PCM and fired right up and ran perfect - until I took it out for a spin and shut down within 2 miles - SOS.

At any rate, pulled the FF data and am including it here, just in case anyone reading this might have a clue from the data.

Thanks
Freeze Frame
Numbers of DTCs 0

DTC that caused required freeze P061B
frame data storage

Fuel system 1 status CL

Fuel System 2 status --

Calculated Load Value 23.9 %

Engine Coolant Temperature 181 °F

Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 1 -7.8 %

Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1 0.0 %

Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 2 -7.0 %

Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2 0.0 %

Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure 4.6 psi

Engine RPM 1056 rpm

Vehicle Speed Sensor 42 mph

Ignition Timing Advance for #1 11.5 °
Cylinder

Intake Air Temperature 55 °F

Air Flow Rate from Mass Air Flow 0.07 lb/s
Sensor

Absolute Throttle Position 16.5 %

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 0.730 V
1-Sensor 1

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank -7.0 %
1-Sensor 1

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 0.785 V
1-Sensor 2

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 99.2 %
1-Sensor 2

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 0.685 V
2-Sensor 1

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank -7.0 %
2-Sensor 1

Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 0.770 V
2-Sensor 2

Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 99.2 %
2-Sensor 2

Time Since Engine Start 49 sec

Fuel Rail Pressure relative to 41.4 psi
manifold vacuum

Commanded EGR 0.0 %

EGR_Error 0.0 %

Commanded Evaporative Purge 0.0 %

Fuel Level Input 47.8 %

Number of warm-ups since 2
diagnostic trouble codes cleared

Distance since diagnostic trouble 2 miles
codes cleared

Evap System Vapor Pressure -0.345 inH2o

Barometric Pressure 14.2 psi

Catalyst Temperature Bank 1149 °F
1,Sensor 1

Catalyst Temperature Bank 1149 °F
2,Sensor 1

Control module voltage 14.195 V

Absolute Load Value 54.1 %

Commanded Equivalence Ratio 0.999

Relative Throttle Position 3.1 %

Ambient air temperature 50 °F

Absolute Throttle Position B 20.8 %

Accelerator Pedal Position D 20.0 %

Accelerator Pedal Position E 27.8 %

Accelerator Pedal Position F 18.8 %

Commanded Throttle Actuator 5.1 %
Control






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