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2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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ppetraki
Novice
Dec 29, 2009, 7:05 PM
Post #1 of 8
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2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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This is an EX with 113194 miles, never had a serious problem with it until now.
All this started about 2 months ago with an innocent check engine light and no discernible
change in performance. The Honda dealer finds that Cylinder 1 is misfiring and can't tell
me why. They prescribe a new set of plugs which they claim the car is overdue for, and
if that doesn't fix it then a new coil would be in order, fine. 3 days later the light comes
on again but this time I'm a little busy at work and it takes me a month to get it back
to the dealer again. Now all the cylinders are misfiring and a compression check showed
50% compression in cyl 2, 25% in cyl 1 & 3, and 10% in cylinder 4.
The dealer claims that the timing chain might have jumped a link but I don't buy that
because of the first incident which was a single cylinder misfire. A skip should affect
all cylinders at once and not one first and the rest later. They're guesstimating almost
$2000 of work and that they might have to tear down the whole thing etc etc...
I don't trust this dealer anymore because of how they presented the diagnostic costs. The
first time I was there they wanted to charge me $300 to run the compression test, the
2nd time I was there they did the test for free and didn't ask for my auth to do the test
and just presented the results. Back to the first visit, the dealer theorized that the coil
might be bad but said they couldn't isolate it for free, I would have to buy a replacement.
On the 2nd visit told me they have "shop coils" and systematically swapped out my coils using
theirs and found no change in the misfiring. Why couldn't they have done that the first time I
was there? On the second visit they didn't charge me for any labor and assured me a master
mechanic was looking at it, I feel like I'm being setup for a con.
I took the car to another dealer on a recommendation and after a look they think
it might be a bad head gasket and are now holding it overnight to see if after the engine cools
whether any coolant seeps in. If it's not that they think it could be anything from
a bent valve to a timing chain skip. They're not charging me anything yet, I feel like I have a
decent mechanic now.
The engine is throwing codes P0301 P0302 P0303 P0304 P0300 and it just failed inspection
due to emissions and check engine light.
What could this be? I've read reports of "tight valves" but it sounds like hand waving to me.
If it was garbage into the computer for whatever reason then why would the symptoms
get worse over time? The spark plugs being changed could be just a red herring or it's
amplifying the root cause.
I'm an engineer but I'm no car guy by any stretch of the imagination, I just want the damn thing
to work :-p. Depending on how much the damage is I'm considering trading in the car and getting
something else all together. The Ford Escape is looking really good to me right now. Thanks in
advance. -Peter
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Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2009, 7:41 PM
Post #2 of 8
(11277 views)
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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>> The Honda dealer finds that Cylinder 1 is misfiring and can't tell me why. << Don't walk, run.! The P0300 is random cylinder misfire. The P0301-P0304 is cylinders 1 thru 4 are misfiring.
This has to be something that affects all four cylinders. A head gasket might affect two cylinders, but all four? I doubt it. A rich or lean condition could affect all four. I would recommend you having the car diagnosed at a shop that has real techs. Besides the rich/lean condition, could be that the timing belt has jumped a tooth, or two. One tooth, you may not notice a huge difference in the way it runs, but two teeth, I'd guess that you'd notice a loss of performance.
Loren
SW Washington
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2009, 9:09 PM
Post #3 of 8
(11272 views)
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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Just a couple of notes..... I must have misinterpreded your compression reading because if 50% was the highest reading,the car wouldn't run.
With the problem you're describing adjusting the valves should've already been done right out of the gate.
Diagnosing a jumped time chain since distributors have disappeared has always been tough and sometimes comes down to a tear down. Some new tests have come out in the last few years using a scope & pressure transducer but like anything, it isn't foolproof.
The most important thing is finding a shop you feel comfortable with & trust. Sounds like you got one now so that is good.....For what it's worth, I don't believe the 1st shop was trying to do anything "shady". I just don't believe they were using all the tests available and then did a very poor job of explain things to you at the end and I can see where a layman would think what you did........
Let us know what you find out
Out of curiousity what type of engineer are you?
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ppetraki
Novice
Dec 29, 2009, 10:00 PM
Post #4 of 8
(11267 views)
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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Thank you for your time. That was no typo, and I quote directly from the bill:
"C/S CEL is on again after changing spark plugs approx a month ago, check and advise.
Tech performed a cylinder compression check and found cyl 2 @ 50%, cyl 1&3 @ 25% and cyl 4 @ 10%. Believes the timing chain may have jumped a link. Approximately 3 hours diag would be needed to remove the valve cover and check the timing belt. Customer declined further diag at this time and is considering trading in vehicle.
No further action at this time."
As for your curiosity, my background is in computer systems engineering but I work as a software engineer.
Back to the problem. I can also smell "something" while I'm driving, the leftovers from the failed combustion perhaps? The car also hesitates a little when it's started but the battery is only 3 years old; it's easy enough to account for that variable.
Regardless of the misfiring. I really don't notice much of change in performance. There's nothing violent about the engine while driving at highway speeds like shaking and rattling.
I owned a 92' 4.3L v6 chevy s-10 blazer once where somehow the actual leads to half of the injectors for the throttle body became detached from the circuit board for the master computer, so I was only running on half my cylinders. The thing was so weak I could barely clock 20 MPH uphill with the pedal to the floor.
What I'm experiencing with the Honda doesn't even come close to that example. Your observation makes a lot of sense, even if you take the compliment of these figures e.g. cyl 1&3 at 75% and cyl 4 has 90% compression I'm still down 110% across the board i.e. net 2.9 cylinders/compression. I should be feeling
something more negative w.r.t. performance.
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Dec 29, 2009, 10:21 PM
Post #5 of 8
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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If you are noticing a burning smell while driving, I would also what to know if you are using coolant....If so a leakdown test may be in order. If that was leakdown test results they wrote down, it would make more sense & I would be looking real hard at #2
I won't question other shops diag rates but that seems a bit high just to check the timing.......
An old joke I'm sure you've probably heard being in the field you are.
How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb????
None....That's hardware problem.......
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ppetraki
Novice
Dec 30, 2009, 12:59 PM
Post #6 of 8
(11249 views)
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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It's been confirmed to be the head gasket, there's a mix of fluids. They haven't removed the heads yet to see what other damage I may have. The car battery is also on it's way out, I guess the dealer I bought it from didn't really put a new battery in. The timing is confirmed to be fine.
So the quote for the job is between 2.2-2.4K. They can get me a used engine with 66K for 3,725 installed with a 1 year/12K warranty backed by Honda. I'm tempted to go for the motor but I'm afraid I'll be bit by the same problem 30K miles down the road.
Trading it in just isn't going to work for me. I'll keep this thing but I'll likely never buy another Honda again.
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ppetraki
Novice
Dec 30, 2009, 5:24 PM
Post #7 of 8
(11239 views)
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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In the end I chose to go with the "new" engine. I'm pretty confident after dealing with the head gasket that this won't be the end of the bill, valve damage is probable. Even if it isn't I'm getting an engine with less mileage than when I bought the entire car to begin with and a year to shake it out as a opposed to a 30 day warranty on labor on a straight repair.
Hopefully this engine will fair better than the last one. Thank you everyone for your help.
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Dec 30, 2009, 6:15 PM
Post #8 of 8
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Re: 2003 honda cr-v with "progressive" misfiring and loss of cylinder compression
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Thanks for letting us know the outcome.....
Any major problem is a tough break...... Sounds like you are making a good decision......While Hondas are good cars and I haven't seen too many with lower end problems, but... If you were getting coolant in the oil going thru the bearings & crank, then that can take it's toll....
I don't want to say just a little more, just due to the fact that 1 K isn't little in my book but when compared to what you are getting with the major repair that's going on, it sounds like the best thing.....Also throw in the fact that you now have a shop that you are comfortable with and it sounds like things sort of worked out for you in the end.............
I hope everything goes smooth for you here on out...
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