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2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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vanman
New User
Jan 11, 2013, 4:19 PM
Post #1 of 7
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2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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My Ford Triton V-10 engine has 77,000 miles on it. I has run fine for years. Recently however I drove it for 2-2.5 hours at highway speed after diesel was mixed with the gas without my knowledge--a station's fill-truck error that wasn't discovered till later. Initially the engine started hard--like it was gas-starved. As it warmed up it ran fine, but within 30 miles at highway speed, it started pinging and knocking under even light accellaration in high gear. (Driving in lower gears/higher RPM lessened the pinging, and that's how I got to a shop.
After the contamination was discovered, we drained the tank, flushed the lines, ran engine cleaner through, and changed the filters. It seemed to run fine on 3 very short in-town runs (barlely long enough to warm it up really).
But just one hour into its first highway trip the engine started vibrating/missing when under slight accellaration at low RPM (like at 35-40 in towns, or when just touching the gas in overdrive at 50-55.
Shop diagnostics revealed this: cylinder #4 has almost no compression 0-25 lbs., a scope showed oil deposit on the cylinder wall, and an apparent melting appearance to the top of that piston head. There is also blowback into the intake manifold--indicating a valve problem too.
My question: can running an engine for 2.5 hours with diesel-contaminated fuel and pulling a heavy load (23,000 GVW motorhome) cause an engine to fail like this? I will have to get a rebuilt engine put in--a $10,000 job. Bottom line: who should pay---me or the fuel company that mixed diesel with gas? And if it is provable that running with diesel caused this engine failure, where do I turn to prove to them that it can in fact cause such damage? Thanks much for your help.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 11, 2013, 5:10 PM
Post #2 of 7
(2254 views)
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Re: 2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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Two problems. One: Somehow diesel got mixed or whatever into the fuel. Two: You drove at highway speeds with a heavy load no less for over 2 hours listening to this thing killing itself and want to know who is at fault! None of us or anyone is here to play blame games. That's best for this gal,
Case closed,
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jan 11, 2013, 5:14 PM)
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jan 11, 2013, 9:27 PM
Post #3 of 7
(2233 views)
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Re: 2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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That's going to be a tough one......The station is obviously liable for any repairs involved with removing the contaminated fuel and items related to that BUT
When your vehicle starts to malfunction and you continue to drive it instead of stopping and having it towed,,,,that is a choice you made.......It would probably go to court and it's anyones guess how that would play out.....
I was personally involve in case similar to this but it involved a stuck thermostat and the car was driven until the engine siezed.......The people lost that case for the simple reason that it started to overheat and they continued to drive the car......Their reason was they were just trying to get home because "it was late, raining & they were scared for their lives".....
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nickwarner
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/ Moderator
Jan 12, 2013, 5:58 AM
Post #4 of 7
(2216 views)
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Re: 2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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Wait a minute. This isn't sounding right at all. You have a gasoline engine and ran diesel in it. If you wrecked your cat, I could see that since it was run for 2.5 hours under full load. But I cannot see you having a blown motor. If you had a Powerstroke and ran gas in it you would be describing the right situation. But diesel fuel has higher lubricity than gasoline and burns colder than it too. So you wouldnt have been detonating, wouldnt have blown your compression out. You would've fouled your spark plugs and possibly clogged your cat. The truck would've stalled out before you could run 2.5 hours even without a load. Diesel in a gas motor actually lubricates the upper cylinder and injectors. Flushing the fuel system and changing the plugs gets it running again and the worst damage would only be to the cat from all the soot loading up in it. You certainly should've shut down that engine when you saw it running like that but something is quite fishy here and little hairs are standing up on my neck.
Now I don't know you personally and with this being online instead of face to face I don't get the benefit of seeing you or the truck. So I can only go by what I'm being told here and it reminds me exactly of a guy I saw once try to scam a gas station into buying him a new engine by making the same claim. He had watched a YouTube video about gas in a diesel and figured it would do the same thing if reversed. All the symptoms you described are of a diesel being run on gasoline. Not a gas being run on diesel. This feels to me like an attempt to blame someone for an engine you don't want to pay for.
You also need to bear in mind what Sidom said. You chose to keep driving this truck for an extended period of time despite warnings that things were a problem. You made the problem worse. Judge Judy could settle this between commercial breaks fairly quickly.
If I am wrong about you, and I do hope I am, please do not take too much offense. I cannot see anything with you or your truck other than words on a screen. But I have seen this before, and it was as shady as it could get.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 12, 2013, 6:47 AM
Post #5 of 7
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Re: 2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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This one is interesting. This engine uses direct injection, so don't know what kind of impact diesel fuel would have on it delivering the correct amount of fuel.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 12, 2013, 7:49 AM
Post #6 of 7
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Re: 2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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That plot thickens. I dare say the fuel was rendered so far below octane rating of any kind it was detonating/pinging so bad never mind lubricity of diesel it pocked away pistons and valves, heads too no doubt hence zero compression noted. What a surprise.
How did diesel get into the tank? Ordinary pumps I know of the nozzle wouldn't fit but can't speak of the tanks of the places where they are filled - supposed to be color coded at least or were once. Leaded fuel was routinely put in "unleaded" tanks by cheats absolutely known by me here.
Doesn't really matter what or why this was thrashing, knocking, pinging away for hours under load too. It was ignored. There will be problems with that part of who is responsible to what degree of the situation, - T
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nickwarner
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Jan 12, 2013, 8:35 PM
Post #7 of 7
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Re: 2001 Ford Tritan V-10 damage from diesel in gas?
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Diesel not only adds lubricity that gasoline doesn't but is more resistant to burning and burns slower than gasoline. Thats why diesel engines run compression ratios upwards of 20:1 yet outlast gasoline engines. The diesel is also very tolerant of different A/F ratios, whereas gasoline isn't. So the presence of diesel in the fuel would make it almost impossible to ping and detonate and damage this engine. The only way this damage happened from fuel like this is to put gasoline in a diesel engine. Gasoline wrecks the injectors, won't lubricate the upper cylinder and detonates early due to the high compression. That would wreck a motor. Thing is, you wouldn't make it 2 1/2 hours of running, just a matter of minutes under load before boom. But this isn't a diesel engine getting gas in it, its diesel in a gas truck. I'm not buying it.
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