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1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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davesakiller
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Jan 8, 2008, 12:51 PM
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1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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I am looking to purchase a 1996 Cadillac Concours and it will overheat while driving.
Current owner installed a new radiator and that did not fix the problem.
He says it will idle in the drive way all day long and never over heat; just while driving down the road.
Any idea what the deal can be?
I am getting a great deal on it, just dont want to bite off more than I can chew. Replacing a water pump (if that's the problem) isnt the end of the world!
Thanks for the help!
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Double J
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Jan 8, 2008, 1:34 PM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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hmmmmmm
usually is the other way around....
just some things to check i guess....you know the northstar has a different smaller drive belt for the water/coolant pump...
its on the drivers side front of the engine where the pump is...many have come in overheating and the belt was off-they all thought serpentine belt drove pump...but will overheat idling as well. check the air dam in front under radiator area,make sure its directing air up thru radiator area....not missing or broken....
also known on these years....head bolt threads pull..appears to be head gasket leaks....heads have to be removed and holes drilled out and inserts installed,bolts replaced,.....good news is ,this repair is stronger than original setup...bad news,very costly to do....
before buying this car,take to cadillac,if posssible and have it inspected for sure.....they know the quirks with this vehicle..
worth the diag charges....northstar engine is a great engine,built for performance,not meant to be pussyfooted with but meant to drive but can be costly to repair.also known for case halves of the engine leaking oil...some seep,some get real bad..have seen some with engine block porosity where the coolant seeps right thru the block...engine needs to be replaced for that.last one was at 30k mileage ..so its not always a high mileage issue......not trying to discourage you at all..deville concours is a great car...just have it checked thoroughly first.......
(This post was edited by JIM N on Jan 8, 2008, 1:36 PM)
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davesakiller
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Jan 8, 2008, 3:13 PM
Post #3 of 15
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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Any idea about what a diag. charge would run?
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Double J
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Jan 8, 2008, 3:21 PM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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depending on what they do,i think most cadillac dealers are up around 100 plus bucks an hour...some,like the last dealer i was at are using a matrix type labor scale...that increases the labor big time,retro to the first hour after 2 plus hours of labor...
they should be able to diagnose for a basis hr diagnostic charge...
i think this is your best bet...that way you know what your getting into.......
how many smiles are on the odometer????
just curious...
good luck...post back with results.....
jim
<<<<<<< cadillac owner>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
(This post was edited by JIM N on Jan 9, 2008, 10:48 AM)
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davesakiller
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Jan 9, 2008, 10:44 AM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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So, this is what I have found out from the owner, any ideas what could be the problem from this description?
The Cadillac runs perfect. It has plenty of power and is very smooth.
There is absolutely no smoke coming out of the exhaust and the oil is very clean. There are no common signs of a blown head gasket.
The air works fine like it should, cold when the a/c is on and hot when you have the heat on.
The radiator is closed; the only cap is on the overflow tank. I have pulled off the cover to the water pump and it turns.
I have only pulled one plug, #2, and it looks fine.
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Double J
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Jan 9, 2008, 10:56 AM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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Stupid question,have you road tested the car?
is it actually overheating,because what you describe,the vehicle is operating as designed.
when driving,is it highway speeds or just any speed that it "overheats".
if its overheating,it should show signs of it,coolant loss,coolant backing up into reservoir,smoke,..etc.you get my point.
if you haven't driven it yet,do so.if it does overheat,with his permission,take to cadillac for diagnosis.
i assume you checked coolant level.had system pressure tested.
post back......i'm still thinkin'
jim
(This post was edited by JIM N on Jan 9, 2008, 10:58 AM)
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davesakiller
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Jan 9, 2008, 11:20 AM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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I have not road tested the car yet. It is about 30 mins from me, and I won't be able to make it out there until Saturday.
I am just trying to figure out if it would be worth the drive only to come back empty handed because it's something that is going to cost me a fortune to fix.
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davesakiller
Novice
Jan 9, 2008, 11:37 AM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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Previous owner stated that radiator was stopped up and needed replaced. Radiator was replaced, and did not solve problem.
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Double J
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Jan 9, 2008, 11:46 AM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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radiator was stopped up doesn't sound good.
was system flushed??
My concern for you is this..these engine DO have a history of small headgasket leaks as well causing combustion gasses to get into cooling system.
thats the thing with buying used cars....sometimes you drive aways to see them and get disappointed and come home empty handed....just be careful.....if you want it badly enough,make sure you have it checked by a quailfied cadillac or equivalent technician....
good luck...post back with what happens...
jim
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davesakiller
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Jan 9, 2008, 12:38 PM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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Hate to be a nuisance, but I spoke to the owner again. He said the previous owner had it pressure tested and came back fine. Said it just needed a new radiator. When the radiator was replaced, he didn't flush system. When it is overheating (about 220 he said?), water is being pushed out of the top of the overflow tank. What would cause this?
Is 220 overheating after 30 mins or so? Is there an indicator in the car that says "Hey, youre overheating"? Or does he think 220 is overheating?
When he pulls the thermostat out it takes longer to heat up. He was told there might be an "air bubble" by someone....dont know how reputable.
The fan comes on and the water pumps comes on!
Sorry for the all the questions, but you are helping a lot!
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Double J
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Jan 9, 2008, 12:50 PM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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Water being pushed up thru the overflow tank is a good indicator that :
1) thermostat is stuck
2)COMBUSTION GASSES ARE GETTING INTO THE COOLING SYSTEM.
what clogged the radiator in the first place.
air bubbles are always possible but he wasn't chasing an air bubble originallly.he was chasing an overheat condition.
i mean if the system is functioning properly it won't develop an air bubble unless the system is opened and not
purged correctly.
air bubbles will make it overheat at idle too.
it has a gauge indicating the temp and should have a red light indicating overheating. 220 is getting pretty warm.
uaually the car will cool down while driving because your forcing air across the radiator.temps usually climb higher when vehicle sits idling until the fans come on.
see if he'll split the cost of diag. with ya because that way if you do find its something major and don't buy it he'll at least have paid for some knowledge about his vehicle.....don't count on this tho.
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Double J
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Jan 9, 2008, 12:52 PM
Post #12 of 15
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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oh and by the way
your not a nuisance at all.
i do this for free because i enjoy the hell out of it.
i hope i get posts other wise the board is boring and i'll have to talk to the other mechanics....lol....sorry boys.just a joke.....
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davesakiller
Novice
Jan 9, 2008, 8:37 PM
Post #13 of 15
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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So, if it is "COMBUSTION GASSES ARE GETTING INTO THE COOLING SYSTEM", the solution is replacing the head gasket?
How much generally does that run? $Hundreds, $Thousands?
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Double J
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Jan 10, 2008, 2:15 PM
Post #14 of 15
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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It can be very costly.....
engine will be removed,heads removed,all head bolt holes have to be drilled out,and inserts installed.
headgaskets replaced .
it can run $3000.00 plus easily....
i left cadillac in 2003 and then it was approx $2500.00 and that was at $94.00 hr labor.....they are much higher today...labor to drill and install inserts alone is 1/2 hr per hole......
give your local cadillac dealer a call and run it by 'em...they do enough of these i'm sure to give you a decent ball park estimate.....
post back with what they tell ya......curious....
heck i';m gonna call some here and check ......see how close i am.
(This post was edited by JIM N on Jan 10, 2008, 4:03 PM)
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Double J
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Jan 11, 2008, 11:24 AM
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Re: 1996 Cadillac Concours Overheating while driving (can idle all day)
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Called caddy dealer...
the cost has gone up big time around here..
Quoted $4500.00 to $4800.00 and now their having trouble with the higher mileage engines....their installing the inserts and their pulling back out of the blocks after running....their having to replace engines.....
I didn't check engine price,but back then it was over $10,000...i can only imagine now.....
good luck to you...proceed with extreme caution on this one....
JIM
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