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1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 8, 2011, 6:15 PM
Post #1 of 23
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1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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after a head gasket replace on my 1990 eagle talon tsi fwd turbo I could only start the car by pumping the gas and it had a really bad idle now I let the car sit for a couple days and now when I start it ( still pumping the gas) I get really bad fast knocking and it get faster and worse if you rev it even just the slightest and even after u stop revving it it continues to knock rapidly for a few seconds then it goes back to the slower knock it has at idle, it idles really low. Here is a list of every aftermarket part on the vehicle:
List of mods: -Fully rebuilt#4G63T engine at 240000 kilometers (Everything in the engine replaced)
-ARP head studs kit
-Titanium valves and valve springs
-Balance shaft deleted
-Evo 3 exhaust manifold and Big 16G turbo, brand new at 240000 kilometers as well
-Exedy Stage 2 clutch kit
-HKS blow-off valve
-Walbro 255LPH fuel pump
-Spearco front mount intercooler with aluminum piping and Vibrant couplers
-Autometer Boost and Air/fuel ratio gauges in pillar pod
-Tanabe adjustable shocks with lowering springs
-Magnaflow muffler/Catalytic converter#deleted
-Polished 16 inch rims
-Powerslot rotors with Hawk brake pads
-Grant steering wheel
Koyo rad
-B&M shifter knob
Aftermarket turbo manifold
#
-Sony xplod hu
300 watt jl audio speaker amp
-Sony 10 inch sub in ported box
Two 15" mtx thunderpro 750 watt
-Bass inferno 1500Watts amplifier
I also have a video of the engine making the noise just not sure how to post it :s thanks in advance guys hopefully this forum has active users cause I've tried other sites and noone posts at all
(This post was edited by Talonbooster12323 on Aug 8, 2011, 6:29 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 8, 2011, 7:47 PM
Post #2 of 23
(2092 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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You could post your video up on something like Youtube and post the link in here.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Talonbooster12323
User
Aug 8, 2011, 7:56 PM
Post #3 of 23
(2089 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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I don't have a YouTube account and I'm on dial up 60% of the time :'(
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 8, 2011, 8:06 PM
Post #4 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Have you checked the base timing on it?
What is the fuel pressure?
Have you tried disabling one cylinder at a time to see if the noise changes or goes away? It's also possible that you have a dead hole that you will find by disabling cylinders.
It's really hard to say what it could be without hearing the noise. You have any friends that have broadband?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 8, 2011, 8:08 PM)
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 9, 2011, 11:53 AM
Post #5 of 23
(2068 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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thanks for the advice I will try everything you mentioned next time I have a chance to ( stupid work keeping me from my car haha) I will try and get the video up, anymore advice is still appreiecated as I will try it all in the next day or so.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 9, 2011, 4:03 PM
Post #6 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Just FYI: Links not generally allowed but if your car specific no problem. Try some free sites for pics if needed and just post the link. I'll try to convert it to a real pic for the post and I'm no geek at this crap.
Good luck. Been there with dial up and may again if the cable to house breaks in Winter. Works but slow,
T
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Talonbooster12323
User
Aug 9, 2011, 5:09 PM
Post #7 of 23
(2048 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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oh sorry I wasn't aware that links Arnt aloud but it is specific to my car I took the video myself and just to keep you all updated I have made a YouTube account and I should have the video up tonight
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 9, 2011, 6:17 PM
Post #8 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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I know it's not clear at sign up but spammers and jerks try to advertise and the site runs on pennies from some ads paid for so links to outside interests just can't stand. Mods pay attention and we are doing well so far at keeping a free site and the lights are still on.
Smile,
Tom
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 9, 2011, 9:15 PM
Post #9 of 23
(2026 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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I managed to get the video here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nec-_UYOFtY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 10, 2011, 3:35 PM
Post #10 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Great job posting that video. That will probably give you better results.
That doesn't sound too good at all. I don't believe that is spark knock. Sounds like a connecting rod/bearing. Or maybe a piston is smashing into something. Any damaged spark plugs?
Maybe others will respond to this thread and give their opinion.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 10, 2011, 3:48 PM)
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 10, 2011, 3:52 PM
Post #11 of 23
(1994 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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spark plugs are good and I tried rotating it by hand via the crankshaft with the valve cover off I couldn't really hear any noises but i was down by the wheel well turning so I'm gunna have to get someone to listen for me.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 10, 2011, 4:17 PM
Post #12 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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You might have to pull the oil pan and check for loose or extreme play in the big end of the rods. You probably won't be able to spin it fast enough by hand to cause the noise to occur. It's the change of direction of the rod/crank and a failed bearing that makes a noise similar to the one in your video.
Sometimes you can disable a cylinder one at a time. Rod noise will change pitch.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 10, 2011, 5:28 PM
Post #13 of 23
(1976 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Okay I will try that when I can, how do you disable cylinders? I was reading about that earlier but didn't quite understand
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 10, 2011, 5:38 PM
Post #14 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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If you can get access to the fuel injector connectors, you can pull a connector off one at a time with the engine running. Disabling an injector will kill that cylinder. If the pitch changes by disabling the injector, that might be the problem cylinder.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 10, 2011, 6:49 PM
Post #15 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Okay cool I'll try that out tomorrow
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 13, 2011, 3:40 PM
Post #16 of 23
(1940 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Okay so i had a day off so I changed some lifters and redid the timing and it still had the noise so I moved the cam shaft angle sensor thing and I could get it to idle decently with no knock but then when I try to rev it it will bog down and if I just hold the gas on the car dies. when it was knocking I could still rev it.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 14, 2011, 4:11 PM
Post #17 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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That is actually the crank angle sensor. You can adjust the timing with that. There is a connector that you have to ground out so you can adjust base timing using a timing light and a mark on the crank pulley while rotating the crank angle sensor. Pulling the timing back or retarding it will make the engine really sluggish and have low manifold vacuum. Advancing it will increase responsiveness, but can cause it to ping or detonate.
In the video that sounded like rod knock, but if that is detonation at idle I would be surprised. Maybe retarding the timing caused the knock to go away because the cylinder pressures where low enough to take the pounding off the rod bearings. If you have too much cylinder pressure from high compression or over advancement for some odd reason, retarding will also take pressure away if detonation is the source of that noise.
What you could do is connect up your timing light and with the engine running look at the mark and scale at the crank pulley and see what the ignition timing is at. If you have a timing light with an advance dial you can figure how much the ECM is advancing the timing if the mark is off the scale. Base timing is 5 degrees BTDC and when the ECM is controlling timing it will be advanced around 8 degrees BTDC. It will probably fluctuate when the ECM is in control.
If timing looks good and your not running some radical compression ratio or having high cylinder pressures in combustion chambers igniting fuel before the spark occurs, you probably looking at a mechanical problem.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 14, 2011, 4:25 PM)
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 15, 2011, 2:37 PM
Post #18 of 23
(1899 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Okay so today I started the car up and I noticed it was smoking from the o2 sensor so I replaced it with a spare when I took the sensor out it was all black on the end so I assumed it was bad I put in my spare but it's still smoking, could a bad o2 sensor be causing my problems? the spare I put in was from a 91 mine is a 90 do I need to buy a brand new specific sensor?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 16, 2011, 7:44 AM
Post #19 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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2 cents worth: Check at any parts site to see if it's the same part #. Smoking?! IDK - any grease or penetrating oil used taking its time to burn off? Threads stripped?
T
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 16, 2011, 10:29 AM
Post #20 of 23
(1873 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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there was no oil or grease or anything on either of them and when I went to take it out it was on there really tight so it couldn't had been just loose or something like that, I'm not sure what to do I don't want to go buy a brand new one and the same thing happen, especially if it has nothing to do with why the car is running like Sh!t
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 16, 2011, 10:30 AM
Post #21 of 23
(1870 views)
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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Oh and I'm working on finding a timing light so I can do what you said to earlier
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 16, 2011, 3:54 PM
Post #22 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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I don't think an O2 sensor is going to cause a knocking noise.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Talonbooster12323
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Aug 19, 2011, 4:05 PM
Post #23 of 23
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Re: 1990 talon knocking at idle? Pre ignition maybe?
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I've yet to get my hands on a timing light But went to check the ignition timing and noticed I didn't even have the lower timing belt cover with the marks on it so I'm guessing that the ignition is out of time if it doesn't even have the cover for it ( idiot that had it before me) I'm hoping this is my problem! Now to find a damn timing light :P
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