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1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 14, 2013, 8:57 AM
Post #1 of 24
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1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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I have a 1986 Dodge Aries K with a 4 cylinder 2.2L engine at 105,000 miles that in the span of 30 minutes went from driving regularly to being unable to accelerate and maintain speed. The car lumbered home and now will not restart. This one might be a bit of a challenge because several things seem to be wrong all at once. I have the Haynes repair manual and car manual that came with it, but I am a novice at repair.
Things done:
Checked Spark Plugs, plugs were worn, replaced all 4. They do spark when turned over.
Cleaned out air filter.
Oil recently changed, engine does burn some oil.
Engine has displayed signs of overheating previously with steam from radiator, added more coolant. Unsure if related to engine.
The steering wheel is loose beneath the adjustment tool, allowing it to wobble if you push it up or down, a significant amount. Apparently this is bad.
Added brake fluid as it was low, unable to find leak on simple check. Didn't realize the brakes were bad until friend tried it during fixing.
My friend said it was the timings and tried to readjust it for me apparently it worked when he did it... has not since. The engine sounds like it wants to turn over and it does have gas and spark, but won't work.
Also checked the fuel filter, removed it and cleaned it up a bit, no issue there.
Today I tried to obtain the onboard ECU error codes with the 'key on, key off, key on, key off, key on' in 5 seconds with no crank. The power loss light did not come up on the dash... not sure why. I opened the rear gate to the car, and that light did not come on, but I am not sure if the engine has to be running for that one to trigger... Even if the battery is disconnected the car will not respond with Power Loss even though it should.
Not sure what to do first. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 14, 2013, 9:33 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Carbed or fuel injected?
Disable fuel,if injected, and spark and perform a compression test.
Write down the numbers.
Lets see what you have to work with.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 14, 2013, 9:37 AM)
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 14, 2013, 7:33 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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I have to purchase the tool for the compression test. I'll try to get one tomorrow as the stores are closed where I am. I'll post when I get the numbers.
Quick question though, according to the Haynes manual it says 'the engine must be at normal operating temperature and battery must be fully charged.' Does this mean it has to be running prior to the test? As it won't run at all now.
(This post was edited by Oldcardriver87 on Apr 14, 2013, 7:38 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 15, 2013, 3:06 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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That's going to make a very minor difference. Don't worry about that unless it is very cold there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 15, 2013, 4:18 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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True - you'll still get useful info cold.
Other of a similar vehicle and age and can't recall the exact model now on road cal was the "computer" in passenger's side kick panel was a rotted mess unseen by the plastic cover. Crusty connections and wet all the time in there on that one. Couldn't be cleaned up and a better used one solved it on car no longer worth any serious investment. Poor info on my part as I don't recall the exact vehicle. That one didn't need special reprogramming but left replacement in a tight ziploc type baggie,
T
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 16, 2013, 10:31 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Alright... good news... bad news...
Did the compression test, all values cold.
#1 = 100 psi - jumped from 80 to 100, went to 90 and remained solid for 15 minutes or more (as all would be)
#2 = 103 psi - jumped to 90 immediately
#3 = 93 psi - went up in stages with turn overs
#4 = 105 psi - jumped to 105 instantly.
Removed the air filter and the plastic housing. Found a broken and badly damaged vacuum line which runs from under the carb to the front of the car, just in front of the right side headlight. No idea what it is or what it does... seems important. Will try to figure out what it is and need to replace it... its like 4 feet long and connected to other wires.
More bad news... seems that the bolt which held them to the engine also rusted or broke free some how and the wires and their plastic protective housing in a cylinder shaped object came to rest and melt and smoke and burn on the engine itself. That might explain part of the problem with the smell and the smoke from the engine which happened whenever the engine got hot and running... No idea what any of that is either, but it connects to said vacuum tube to the carb. And finally... said missing vacuum tube was hard as a rock and snapped when touched... no idea with what it goes to or how it is hooked up. Any ideas?
Still no sign of the 'power loss' light coming on. I cannot figure out how to get the codes from the light which will not light up. Not sure if its dead either or how that all works. Can't take the car to the shop without paying for towing and all, but given the state of the situation above... I think something important is broken... maybe several things. Is there an easy way of testing the bulb, or opening the dash and replacing it?
Oh.. and one other thing... possible concern here as well... my steering column is all messed up still and not sure how to fix it, but the radio will not turn on in the typical position under the 'off-disengage', and moving the steering column also messes with the gauge for what gear the car is in. Not sure if this is fixable or related.
(This post was edited by Oldcardriver87 on Apr 16, 2013, 10:32 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 17, 2013, 1:04 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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I didn't even need to read that. Compression is mechanical and those #s too low to run. Timing or a belt or chain jump with possible damage. Not good,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 17, 2013, 1:13 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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One More: and hate to say it: These cars were junk when new, never mind this old. Just my own opinion not everyone's here.
Hard words - dump it! -- T
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 17, 2013, 6:40 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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What would it take to get those numbers up. I noticed a bad gasket on the top of the engine which is coming out of the top cover during closer inspection, that would be easy to repair if it is the problem. I do have access and have seen an engine overhaul before, on a much older car, but I do wish to restore this car if possible. I'm not afraid of the work that needs to be done.
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 17, 2013, 9:18 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Sarcasm? I'm far from a mechanic, but with the handy book it did not seem so hard on a much older car. Granted it took a long time and I was only a helper, this antique is what I wanted to restore. I have been driving it for a while now, and I do like it. I got the engine to turn over and run but when the gas was pressed down a bit, so there is some life left in it. This vacuum line from the carb to the front of the car, is confusing me, it seems really important too. I'm going to make a trip to the store and get a replacement later on, but could this have impacted the compression test? Or is it a gasket issue (which I see one right now). Even if it means replacing the head gasket, I would do it.
In short, I just don't know how to diagnose the problem(s), doing the repairs from there will be easier, just time consuming. So please assist! And thanks for helping me get this far, the knowledge of troubleshooting it will make it easier for me in the future. Last year the repairs on my car consisted of the trunk, the light system, some engine tinkering and a few minor parts. This is beyond me, but that was when I first started, I will learn.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 17, 2013, 1:39 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Just know sport we (regulars) are all giving our time and experience with whatever for FREE! YOU said you were not a mechanic and some who are shouldn't' be.
Any book you bought that didn't set you back a couple hundred bucks is junk. Toss that crap.
No sarcasm here. Volunteers to help with unknown people who may or may not be able to handle problems. We have to guess and frequently good at it.
Your job is to accurately state what the problems are. We guess at best from that.
Have been at this stuff for a long time now. Everything is the best, only suggestions by me or anyone as to where to look for a problem. We are not there which alone is a handicap for web car any issue,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 17, 2013, 2:49 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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I should re-assert. If out of your real skills seek the help. I do with many home things. I'm NOT going to let some plumbing issue go without EX[ENSIVE perfect fix.
Could I do it - yes but not my trade so pay. I'd be so thrilled to have something go wrong to save a buck a flood my home - get it?
I can appreciate you wanting to learn. For most that will end at what you should know you are not going to fix on your own. It takes years and mega bucks to do this, sometimes for folks who think it's all easy and just a rip off.
This stuff isn't just grease monkey anything anymore. Big bucks and lots of training that isn't free to even do it! On a rant - my late Dad was a surgeon, less invested in crap than I do in tools -- as sign off should now say, "long retired."
Tom
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 18, 2013, 9:39 AM
Post #14 of 24
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as rude. I will end up taking it to the mechanic if my fixes don't work. The vacuum lines which are broken (there are two of them, one further separates with a Y-split) go into the carb. The smoke was actually the broken components falling onto the exhaust manifold and smoking. Also found the coolant leak issue, it is the hose and the leak is tiny. I am going to replace the lines and double check the wires, the casing has some minor melting of the plastic housing. The engine DOES run with some tinkering, but it is not drivable and is not reliable.
I do have assistance of a better-than-me but 'not a mechanic'- friend to help out. He's much better than me and was/is willing to bet that the lines would fix the problem. So for a $10 bet versus a $500 tow and inspection fee to try and diagnosis the problem, I'll take the shot at the lines and report back.
The compression issue is cause for concern ( I guess) so I'll be addressing that whenever I can. I do have a backup vehicle so I'm not stranded, but I don't want my 86 to turn into a project car. Thanks for your help so far, the compression gauge is already useful and has potentially already paid for itself.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 18, 2013, 12:01 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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No problems. Trust me - VERY well qualified help is here. I'll stay out as I about know I've not been helpful. Good luck with the fix. Said - just guys for now but well qualified,
I would like to see this fixed and will stay out of it for now,
Tom
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 18, 2013, 4:32 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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No... you have been helpful, a new tool and knowledge of how it works is a good thing. The engine did run today (albeit with gas fully depressed) enough to get to warm temperatures, but letting up killed it and the battery got drained. Unfortunately, my friend messed with the distributor by turning the housing and turned it back, so I'm upset if I have another new problem from that. The battery charger I got is dead and I noticed water coming from under the car, it is coming from a cracked exhaust pipe, just before the muffler. This is turning into a nightmare.
At least it is capable of running now... does it change anything? I want to give as much information as I can about the car. One last thing, I believe my power loss/check engine light bulb is out, it will not trigger when it should. I am going to open up the instrument panel and replace the part in a bit. Then if it throws an error code, maybe that will help isolate the problem for other volunteers.
(This post was edited by Oldcardriver87 on Apr 18, 2013, 4:37 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Apr 18, 2013, 5:18 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Make sure the ASD relay is powering up and actually powering up the computer. That would be a reason for no check engine light.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 18, 2013, 10:34 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Again, I'd like the guys to help you with this. ALL capable. Compression all too low is the up front problem and some common to all reason is why. If damaged it could be the end of this car IMO. Wish you luck that this is not some "game over" thing. What stinks, is good used cars are hard to find about now. Old is fine, quality is mandatory,
Tom
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 20, 2013, 8:49 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Not sure how to check the ASD, will have to look it up. I do have a spark, the distributor is working and made sure the timings were correct. Also, opened up the instrument panel and replaced the bulb just to be on the safe side. My Haynes manual is useless for troubleshooting a 'power loss' light and doesn't really detail it at all. I opened the kick panel and found the computer and the power module is to the left of the engine, but it says nothing about troubleshooting it.
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Hammer Time
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Apr 20, 2013, 9:32 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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If you have spark, the relay is working.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 21, 2013, 8:15 AM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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I'm going to do a wet compression test later today to provide more information. Any help about troubleshooting the electronics or what to do will be good. If it comes down to it, I will do a valve job or replace the head gasket, while it is a lot of labor on our end, getting the car running is important. My friend overhauled his engine in a big way and is confident that we could do the job if its the problem.
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Oldcardriver87
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Apr 21, 2013, 5:16 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Good news everyone! I got my error codes, the power loss light turned on and works properly now! The codes I recieved were 12 and 55 and according to the book those mean the key was cycled (for reading the codes) and 55 is the end of the codes. So the computer doesn't have any errors that it knows about.
Did the wet compression test, with a few drops of oil in the spark plug, the gauge jumped to 120 PSI, a difference of ~30 psi in the tested cylinders. What does this mean? I read that it involves working on the valves and such... would this likely fix the problem or am I getting ahead of myself?
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Hammer Time
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Apr 21, 2013, 5:37 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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No, that test indicated that the problem is in the rings and cylinder walls and not worth fixing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Oldcardriver87
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May 1, 2013, 4:57 PM
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Re: 1986 Dodge Aries 2.2L Engine won't start
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Good news. I got error codes from the car after some tinkering and found that it turns over and runs now, but it won't STAY running. Error codes point to 24, Throttle position sensor too low or too high of voltage and error code 13, MAP sensor has no change. The previous issue was that when checking the timing, it was thrown off, we reset it and now it starts, but idles really slow and rough for a few seconds before dying. Not sure what to do, but I think this is an improvement.
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