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'06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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JeffOYB
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May 3, 2014, 9:06 AM
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'06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Hi! This is my first post here.
We have an '06 Monterrey with a fairly fresh engine of only 40k miles.
It has a 4.2 L OHV V6 engine.
When driving this cold winter we noticed it was missing from time to time. Maybe more often when full of people. So I scheduled to bring it into my mechanic. On the drive in I noticed it was definitely missing and even backfiring and "popping" from the front of the vehicle when I would accelerate from a stop.
The mechanic drove it around and noticed this as well. He checked all fuel pressures, they were fine. No engine code. So he replaced the plugs and wires, which was a tough job with this engine, needing to remove wipers cowling, etc.
The backfiring quit! We drove it for a month, no problem.
Then the backfiring started up again. Low power, spluttering on hard acceleration while somewhat cold. Popping when accelerating from a stop in general, or when loading the engine. The check engine light came on. We had a clue! We brought it back and the mechanic said Yes there's a misfire code. But he still couldn't figure it out. It is irregular, except under load. He said one plan to solve it might be to just drive it until it gets worse and becomes regular. He didn't think it would strand us in the meantime.
He didn't seem to want to check the sparkplugs again, to see if they were burnt or changed in such a short time.
He thought it might relate to a cam roller getting stuck.
Any ideas? ...Thanks.
(This post was edited by JeffOYB on May 3, 2014, 9:07 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 3, 2014, 9:37 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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If this mechanic can't find the cause of an obvious miss that the computer has already identified which cylinder, then you need a different mechanic. This is something any qualified tech should be able resolve unless he is just being lazy.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kev2
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May 3, 2014, 10:06 AM
Post #3 of 23
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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something is missing -
Lets try this- have the system scanned for codes. free at autozone, advance, orielys etc.... copy the #'s down and post them here..
We can give you some advice once you do that,
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JeffOYB
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May 3, 2014, 10:18 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Hi... Thanks!
I note that the computer on this year/model doesn't tell which cylinder is missing. My guy said that would've been handy to know for labor saving...
I can go to the Auto parts store for that scan and let you know. Actually, my guy gave me the codes he found at one point. Rats, can't find them now in my notebook.
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Discretesignals
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May 3, 2014, 11:16 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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There are several way to identify misfiring cylinders on a Ford even if your not getting a cylinder specific trouble code.
(1) mode$06 misfire monitor results
(2) cylinder contribution test
(3) power balance test
If your mechanic is up to date, he/she should know this.
TSB 10-3-3
03/01/10
DAMAGED SPARK PLUG ELECTRODE/MIL DTC P030X
FORD:
2004-2007 Freestar
MERCURY:
2004-2007 Monterey
This article supersedes TSB 7-14-1 to update the vehicle model years covered, Service Procedure and Part List.
ISSUE
Some 2004-2007 Freestar and Monterey vehicles may experience a melted or damaged spark plug electrode, malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) with diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's) P030X, rough idle, engine knock/ping on acceleration. Pre-ignition (which yields these symptoms) may be caused by water entering the powertrain control module (PCM).
ACTION
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Remove PCM from vehicle. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-14.
2. Remove the PCM cover by carefully bending back the four (4) retaining clips holding the galvanized metal cover to the top plate. (Figure 1)
3. Look for evidence of water contamination within the PCM (liquid water, rust, water stains or deposits). (Figure 2)
a. If evidence of water is found, obtain a replacement PCM and remove its cover before continuing on to Step 4.
b. If evidence of water is not found, proceed to Step 4 with the vehicle's original PCM.
4. Set the PCM top plate in a clean, dry location where the circuitry will be protected from damage.
5. With the PCM cover removed, drill a 1/4" (5 mm) hole on each of the four (4) corners of the PCM cover. Get as close to the corner as possible. (Figure 3)
6. De-burr the edges on both inside and outside surfaces. (Figure 3) Vacuum off all chips and wipe off all metal dust and any machining oil.
7. Clean the surfaces of the PCM cover with Motorcraft(R) Metal Surface Prep or equivalent. Also clean the edges of the PCM top plate. The metal surfaces must be completely clean before proceeding to Step 8.
8. Apply Motorcraft(R) Ultra Silicone Sealant to all edges depicted. (Figure 4, 5, 6, 7) Proceed directly to Step 9 - do not let the sealant skin over.
NOTE
MOTORCRAFT(R) CLEAR SILICONE RUBBER, TA-32, CAN NOT BE USED SINCE ITS CONSTITUENTS MAY DAMAGE THE PCM CIRCUITRY.
9. Carefully blow off the PCM internals with filtered, dry air at 5-10 PSI (34-69 kPa) to ensure all components are dry and clean.
10. Reassemble the PCM, and bend the retaining clips back fully. Make sure a full seal is created around the top edge of the PCM - add sealant as required. (Figure 8)
11. Apply Motorcraft(R) Ultra Silicone Sealant around all four sides of the gray header where it meets the PCM sheet metal. (Figure 9)
NOTE
ALLOW 1 HOUR FOR SEALANT TO DRY PRIOR TO INSTALLING PCM.
12. Install the PCM in the vehicle. Refer to WSM, Section 303-14.
NOTE
ONLY 2006-2007 MODEL YEAR FREESTAR AND MONTEREY VEHICLES NEED TO HAVE THE PCM REPROGRAMMED. FOR THESE VEHICLES ONLY, PROCEED TO STEP 13.
13. Reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) to the latest calibration using IDS release 49.9 and higher or 50.1 and higher. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2007.7 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at the website.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 3, 2014, 11:36 AM)
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JeffOYB
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May 3, 2014, 2:22 PM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Amazing! Thanks. Well, I'll start by getting the codes and see what they tell us...
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nickwarner
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May 3, 2014, 2:57 PM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Start also by finding a new mechanic. If this guy isn't tooled up for driveability diagnostics (first clue is a labor rate under $80 per hour minimum). He probably shouldn't be someone to pay for this. This takes a lot of money both for the shop and the tech to learn and keep up with. Our scan tools alone cost over $1000 each year to update software on and the same information system that DS found your TSB on is over $300 per month. A place keeping up with that along with the constantly changing technology which is thousands more per year in training will have a labor rate to match. But you get what you pay for.
This guy you go to may be a good guy for simpler things. You have him do your oil changes, brakes, suspension and he does a good job at a fair price. But it sounds like this one is over his head. He tried to solve it and couldn't because he is outside of his realm on it. But a true driveabilty tech like HT or DS takes something much more in terms of investment and training. Kind of like there are doctors in general practice and then there are neurosurgeons.
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JeffOYB
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May 5, 2014, 4:55 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Say, if there is no engine warning light on will we get a code reading?
I recall that mechanic was going to clear the codes to see if new ones showed up.
The light once came on before, I suppose when my wife really tried to floor it and it was popping and losing all power. I've been driving it easier since. Should we try to make the light come on?
So do I read that long reply correctly and IF those codes/symptoms show up THEN we should inspect that PCM?
Or were those codes only presented as a way to sort out which cylinder is misfiring? (Oh, maybe two of those tests didn't involve codes. Our guy did test cylinder compression and such. I'm not sure what the contribution and balance tests are.)
Should we inspect the PCM in any case?
(This post was edited by JeffOYB on May 5, 2014, 4:59 AM)
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Hammer Time
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May 5, 2014, 5:05 AM
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That long reply was a Technical Service Bulletin that may or may not apply to your car.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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JeffOYB
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May 5, 2014, 1:26 PM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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So the diagnosis would relate to this part of the TSB:
"Some 2004-2007 Freestar and Monterey vehicles may experience a melted or damaged spark plug electrode, malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) with diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's) P030X, rough idle, engine knock/ping on acceleration. Pre-ignition (which yields these symptoms) may be caused by water entering the powertrain control module (PCM)."
***
The relevant code would be P030X?
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Hammer Time
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May 5, 2014, 1:31 PM
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No diagnosis has been made. The TSB was supplied to you because the maufacturer is aware of an issue and it's worth looking into.
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JeffOYB
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May 5, 2014, 2:09 PM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Oh, you're most correct. I thought I asked if we should look to that section for indications so that we could make a diagnosis. Would that be the right next step? JP
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Hammer Time
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May 5, 2014, 2:12 PM
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The TSB addresses water intrusion into the PCM. I would inspect it and look for any indication that could be happening.
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JeffOYB
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May 23, 2014, 5:59 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Hi! Sorry my previous reply was incomplete. I meant to say thanks for the helpful info! I'm working on it now.
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JeffOYB
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May 23, 2014, 6:08 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Wow! Here's more that I found about this leaky PCM. (I'm now trying to locate it under the hood.) ...
Vehicle Component: Power Train:Automatic Transmission:Control Module (Tcm, Pcm)*
Summary: The subject vehicles suffered from a design issue whereby water could run down onto the cowling under the hood and located in the area of the windshield wipers and then drip onto a computer module, the Powertrain Control Module (PCM), which could be manifested in a variety of symptoms depending on which part of the circuit board became wet or which of the connector pins shorted out.In addition to causing an engine to stall, which may or may not then restart, the water intrusion could also cause the transmission to shift poorly, the vehicle to have erratic power, a malfunction indicator light to come on, or result in an inability to start the vehicle, an inability to shift the vehicle into either forward or reverse. Also the problem could cause a higher than normal idle RPM in Park, or for the radio to malfunction, or the interior lights to stay on.During this investigation ODI was concerned with the effect of the engine stalling or a drastic and sudden loss of power either of which may create a safety risk.In reviewing the actual number of these types of incidents, collectively referred to here as engine stalls, the number was found to be below what would be considered a defect trend.For example, the number of engine stalls identified in Ford's warranty claims for the model year (MY) 2004 subject vehicles, the MY with the most failures, was 200 out of population of 125,865, for a failure rate of 0.16%.The one crash recorded by a complainant to NHTSA, VOQ 10311522, alleged that the engine stalled, due to water intrusion into the PCM, while the road was turning causing her to go off the road and according to the police report the vehicle then hit an embankment and a tree stump. Ford reported in their response that there were three alleged crashes but none of these were validated as being caused by a problem with water intrusion into the PCM causing a stall.Accordingly this investigation is closed.The closing of this investigation does not constitute a finding by NHTSA that a safety-related defect does not exist.The agency will continue to monitor complaints and other information relating to the alleged defect in the subject vehicles and take further action in the future if warranted.
More Details: For detailed information & supporting documents, see the official NHTSA page concerning investigation #PE10033 ยป
Status of Investigation: This investigation was closed on July 15 2011 and no recall was issued.
* This defect investigation is filed under 2 related vehicle components.
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Hammer Time
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May 23, 2014, 7:36 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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The PCM is inserted from under the hood, behind the right strut tower but most of it sits on the other side of the firewall, under the dash. The connector is the only thing you will see from the engine side.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 23, 2014, 7:42 AM)
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JeffOYB
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May 31, 2014, 11:14 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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I found it. Opened it. There was dampness in there. I dried it. Blew it out with air compressor. Gave it a skim of dielectric grease. Put it back together. Added a silicone seal in gasket area above PCM.
I found a couple YouTubes on doing all this. They had also found that rough running and weird trans issues related to the PCM getting wet and staying wet.
We've had shifting issues as well.
Well, sadly, after I reassembed and test drove I still have all same problems. Ugh.
I haven't gone to AutoZone to get codes yet. I'll do that.
I note that when I'm in park and rev the engine gradually that it's perfect until it gets to 3000 where it starts to sputter. Basically pressing on gas more and more at that point won't get me ANY higher revs just more choking. Floored it'll go to 3100rpm.
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JeffOYB
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Jun 5, 2014, 4:52 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Well, I had my codes checked. No codes.
The problem is getting worse.
The car runs perfectly at low RPMs and when cruising.
There are now three noticeable aspects of the problem:
1. When I accelerate with almost any but the lightest amount of throttle I hear a fast "chuck chuck chuck chuck" sound from the engine area and there is hardly any increase of power. Acceleration can now only be done very gradually. (I could get a recording of the sound. Maybe it's also like a "chuh chuh chuh chuh" sound. It's not a "banging" type of backfire.)
2. If one tries to accelerate harder despite the "chuh chuh chuh" sounds the car can go out of gear. Zero drive in drive. I pull over and a quick change of lever and also letting off the gas fixes things. (This combo of backfiring and wacky transmission made me suspect a wet PCM earlier.)
3. In park the car accelerates perfectly up to 3000 RPM. At that same point every time the needle then begins to rise and fall a bit and the car starts hesitating. As one continues to press the gas pedal the sound of "bogging down" increases. The engine is choking and will not increase in RPMs. Flooring the car brings the RPMs up to maybe 3100.
Ideas?
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Hammer Time
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Jun 5, 2014, 7:22 AM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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MAF will act like that
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JeffOYB
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Jun 5, 2014, 4:11 PM
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Re: '06 Monterrey intake backfires on acceleration
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Just need cleaning? Or replace? What to look for? Broken wires in the MAF? Corrosion?
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Hammer Time
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Jun 5, 2014, 10:17 PM
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No, it won't be just cleaning. There may not be any visible way to determine if it is the cause. A lab scope would be the best way to test it but i doubt you have one of those so trying another one may be the only way to find out.
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