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p1406 and p0135


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monty102
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Jul 8, 2012, 7:09 PM

Post #1 of 10 (1997 views)
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I got a 1997 Buick lesabre with a new egr on it and it is throwing a p1406 egr pindle position code and a p0135 bad upstream heater code.
I ordered a new sg454 o2 sensor and I will put it on this week. Should that fix the problem?

Does anyone know if the egr ground for the pindle signal to that pcm is the same as the ground for the heater on the o2 sensor. I'm thinking that may be the reason I got the p1406 code but I don't know for sure.

Does anyone know if the egr pindle position has to be relearned. I do not have a tech 2 scanner to command the pcm to do relearning but I have
noted that it can be accomplished without the tech 2 scanner by disconnecting the wiring harness on the egr. turning the switch on and scanning for the codes that are thrown and right after you clear them turn the ignition off and then reattach the egr harness and this will cause the pcm to relearn the egr pindle position
of the egr.


links from other forum removed
.


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 8, 2012, 7:28 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 8, 2012, 7:31 PM

Post #2 of 10 (1978 views)
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  post locked   Re: p1406 and p0135 [In reply to]  


Quote
Does anyone know if the egr ground for the pindle signal to that pcm is the same as the ground for the heater on the o2 sensor. I'm thinking that may be the reason I got the p1406 code but I don't know for sure.


Definitely not. The ground is the control wire for the EGR connected to the PCM. Nothing to do with an 0/2 heater. The EGR has no relearn process. You most likely have a bad EGR valve.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



monty102
New User

Jul 8, 2012, 7:35 PM

Post #3 of 10 (1972 views)
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  post locked   Re: p1406 and p0135 [In reply to]  

The relearn process is mentioned on this post: Unfortunately The link got deleted but you can google it if you want.

Also the wiring diagram on autozone for this vehicle shows that
the egr grounds to the the sensor ground. It doesn't state what sensor but since its wiring is located next to the o2 sensor I suspected that meant it was that o2 senor that grounded the egr

The egr in the vehicle that is throwing the code is the same egr that originally threw the code. I removed it after it threw the code and repalced it with my 1999 lesabre egr which was not throwing a code. I put the 1997 egr on the 1999 lesabre and I have driven it 90 miles with no codes.

So, I decided to look at the wiring diagram to see why the o2 sensor and the egr seem to throw the codes on the 1997 buick at the same time because it appears the egr itself is
not faulty. That is when i noted on the autozone wiring diagram that the egr and the o2 sensor "may" have the same ground. I believe the ground on the o2 sensor
is in the heater circuit and i believe that is what the p0135 code relates to. The p1406 code is refers to the pindle position of the egr and that ground is the ground
that I suspect goes to the o2 wiring harness.


Link removed, not allowed


(This post was edited by monty102 on Jul 8, 2012, 7:55 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 8, 2012, 7:45 PM

Post #4 of 10 (1961 views)
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That was just some guy's opinion.

There is nothing to learn. the EGR feeds position info back to the PCM and the PCM commands it's movement. The PCM is hard programmed to EGR operation.









The linear EGR valve is designed to accurately supply EGR to an engine independent of intake manifold vacuum. The valve controls EGR flow from the exhaust to the intake manifold through an orifice with a PCM controlled pintle. During operation, the PCM controls pintle position by monitoring the pintle position feedback signal. The feedback signal can be monitored with a scan tool as ACTUAL EGR P0S. ACTUAL EGR P0S should always be near the commanded EGR position ( DESIRED EGR P0S).

The PCM uses information from the following sensors to control the pintle position:
  • Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor.
  • Throttle Position (TP) sensor.
  • Mass Air Flow (MAF).

The linear EGR valve is usually activated under the following conditions:
  • Warm engine operation
  • Above idle speed

LEGEND IMAGE # 3
  1. Linear EGR Valve
  2. Exhaust Gas
  3. To Cylinders
  4. Pintle





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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 8, 2012, 7:45 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 8, 2012, 7:55 PM

Post #5 of 10 (1956 views)
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My bet on this is the EGR has built up carbon under the pintle, not allowing it to return to fully seated position. The cure is new EGR.


More info from the service manual.


The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system is used to lower Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) emission levels caused by high combustion temperature. It does this by decreasing combustion temperature.

The main element of the system is the linear EGR valve. The EGR valve feeds small amounts of exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber. With the fuel/air mixture diluted by the exhaust gases, combustion temperatures are reduced.

The valve controls EGR flow from the exhaust to the intake manifold through an orifice with a PCM controlled pintle. During operation, the PCM controls pintle position by monitoring the pintle position feedback signal. If a problem with the EGR system will not allow the PCM to control pintle position properly, DTC P1406 should set. The PCM also tests for EGR flow; if incorrect flow is detected, DTC P0401 should set.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



monty102
New User

Jul 8, 2012, 8:00 PM

Post #6 of 10 (1951 views)
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I've found that the mass air flow sensor can make the egr throw codes too. When it does the maf throws no code. Your
response seems to indicate that the maf could be my problem as the egr itself are clear of carbon and don't throw codes
on the other buick I have put both of them on. They just throw codes on the 1997 buck that is why I was looking at the o2
sensor as the problem. I could be wrong. Since the maf is 45 bucks I hate to buy one without knowing it will fix the p1406 code
problem. Thks for your interest..... Kinda like trying to figure out the recipe for KFC chicken.....


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 8, 2012, 8:05 PM

Post #7 of 10 (1946 views)
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I'm not going to waste a whole bunch of effort debating someone that is relying on the Internet to educate themselves.

I'm telling you right now. There is no EGR programming and there is no way a MAF will set a P1406. Do whatever you want. It's your money to waste.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



monty102
New User

Jul 8, 2012, 8:22 PM

Post #8 of 10 (1942 views)
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   Guess you are having a bad day. Sorry you read my post. I'll go it my on.

What i told you were intended only to just explain my situation and what I had learned trying to fix my problem. I am sorry if you

feel you are wasting your time checking anything out. The wiring diagram from autozone is all had to

go by to conclude the the ground for the O2 sensor is the same as the egr.

Pls do not respond back as I do not need you help if it ruins you day and makes you feel as though you are debating someone.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 8, 2012, 8:24 PM

Post #9 of 10 (1938 views)
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  post locked   Re: p1406 and p0135 [In reply to]  

No problem. Go waste some money.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



nickwarner
Veteran / Moderator
nickwarner profile image

Jul 9, 2012, 11:23 PM

Post #10 of 10 (1901 views)
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  post locked   Re: p1406 and p0135 [In reply to]  

If you have a pile of buicks behind your trailer and only rely on Autodeath for information, good luck fixing this. You were given good advice and instead of choosing to investigate the issue wanted to explain it your own way and find a way to never buy parts. Welcome to the real world (which does suck) you actually have to replace crap parts over a decade old with new ones, not other crap parts over a decade old. If you won't do that and won't listen to anyone other than some idiot kid at a parts counter popping a zit because he tells you what you want to hear then your car will run like crap and you'll spend more money in parts you didn't need than what you would to find the right one you did. Best of luck.




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