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Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?


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05XBoxer
Novice

Jul 9, 2017, 3:05 AM

Post #1 of 14 (735 views)
  post locked   Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

My 05 Scion XB started out with one code for PO301 (Cyl 1 Misfire) Like an idiot I ignored it for 2 months since the only symptom was a 1 second hesitation when I first hit the gas from a stop and a slight rough idle. Yesterday, it would not start. Now my codes are PO301 (Cyl 1 misfire, PO304 (Cyl 4 misfire, PO010 (A Camshaft Actuator Position, PO351 52 53 54 (Ignition Coil A B C D Primary/Secondary Circuit)

I have replaced the plugs, the old ones were extremely foul (black) and worn.(I change oil & filter usually on time with 265k miles)

I plan on changing the 4 coils with a set of duralast from autozone for around $240 BUT was wondering if I should check anything else first.

Do you think that it is likely that all of these codes are related to the bad plugs and coils? Thanks for any advise or comments.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 3:52 AM

Post #2 of 14 (727 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

Site will go down for a couple hours soon by time stamp and be back in a couple hours.


Hey - you both have 265K miles engine is in total question if plain worn out with lots less than that. You also ignored a misfire which in an hour sets other codes and let that go so long you've no doubt wrecked the converter too and exhaust sensors.


I suggest you plain check mechanical condition of this engine abused like that if you want to invest in that one or choose another route to fix this as you must have very high buck problems now,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 5:04 AM

Post #3 of 14 (723 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  


Quote
PO351 52 53 54 (Ignition Coil A B C D Primary/Secondary Circuit)


Do you have all 4 codes or just the P0351?



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05XBoxer
Novice

Jul 9, 2017, 8:49 AM

Post #4 of 14 (710 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

Has all 4 codes P0351 52 53 54.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 8:55 AM

Post #5 of 14 (704 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

If that's the case you need to look at the wiring, not the coils. Check for power supply on the black with red wire with the key on. It's possible one of them or the wiring is shorted causing a fuse to blow but I seriously doubt you have 4 bad coils.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



05XBoxer
Novice

Jul 9, 2017, 9:07 AM

Post #6 of 14 (702 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

Actually the car had no "buck problems" and ran almost normal other than a very slight hesitation on take off. I think that the reason I did not take it more serious is that my check engine light was broke and has stayed ON for the past 5 years. (It would have cost over $1000 to fix that light!) I did not even realize there was a problem until I put on my code meter.

The car started normal up until 2 days ago when all of a sudden it would not start. Other than that the car is in top condition both inside and out, and certainly worth repairing in my opinion.

Guess I will probably try new coils later today and see what happens. Any new comments before I blow $240 are appreciated,


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 9:27 AM

Post #7 of 14 (688 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

Your check engine light is not "broke"

It's alerting you to a malfunction that needs to be addressed. Maybe the mechanic you are using simply doesn't know enough to diagnose it properly but your check engine light is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

I just advised you that you "do not" have 4 bad coils and yet you appear to be proceeding that direction anyway.

Not much point in any further posting here.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



05XBoxer
Novice

Jul 9, 2017, 12:02 PM

Post #8 of 14 (680 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  


In Reply To
If that's the case you need to look at the wiring, not the coils. Check for power supply on the black with red wire with the key on. It's possible one of them or the wiring is shorted causing a fuse to blow but I seriously doubt you have 4 bad coils.


I checked the black/red wires to each coil and ALL of the wires. The wires all "look" almost new. Also checked the fuses briefly and did not see any bad ones. Will double check that when more time.

I guess you are asking me to probe the black/red wires with a meter while key is on to see if any power is actually getting to the coils.... Do you think the best way for me to do that is to shave off a small amount of the plastic wire casing with a razor blade so that I can make contact with my meter probe, or is there a better way? I always fear damaging those thin wires.

Also, I did not mention this before, but when I took my OBD reading the last time, I had a hose disconnected. It was the hose that goes to the engine and has the PCV valve in the end of the hose. Anyway, I have additional codes that I had mistakenly assumed were caused by that hose being disconnected, BUT I get the same additional codes even with that hose connected. Here are the additional codes....

PO113 (Intake Air Temperature)
PO118 (Engine Coolant Temperature)
PO122 (Throttle/Pedal Position)

Now for the strange part.... my engine fan runs on high when I turn the key on (the car is not hot since it has not run in 2 days).

NOW FOR THE VERY STRANGE PART... 2 days ago, when my car first would not start, here is what happened...

1. Put the key in and the car at first started normally.
2. I immediately heard a very loud noise coming from the inside A/C blower motor. It sounded like a big twig or some leaves might have gotten into the squriel cage blower.
3. I turned OFF the running engine to see what the noise was, but only found 2 small leaves on top of my a/c filter. Nothing was under the filter inside of the squirel cage blower fan. I could not see anything that was causing the loud noise that the blower was making. Maybe the blower bearing is going out or something, but it sounds like it is scrapping on something. It still turns fast.
4. So next I attempt to turn the ignition key on, and this is when the car would not start!!! Remember, it had started just a few minutes before.

Question.... This seems like a BIG coincidence, but is it? I personally replaced that blower with aftermarket one about 2 years ago and never had any problems with it until the exact time that I start having all of these codes and the car not starting.

Is it posible that the fan blower had something to do with all of these codes and my car not starting?

I am not going to buy those coils until I have more info.

Thanks for any more ideas u might have since having this additional info.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 12:08 PM

Post #9 of 14 (675 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

Woooo............

You failed to mention those codes? Those are all important codes. The coolant temp code is likely the reason your fan is running. With open circuit or unplugged it defaults to -40 degrees and runs the fans all the time. That will cause the computer to go full rich.

You're got a dozen codes here that all need to be resolved. If you are lost with doing this, then you need to get it to a shop. You have way too many problems to resolve in an online forum.

You should clear them all and see which ones come back to make sure you aren't unplugging things and causing all of this.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



05XBoxer
Novice

Jul 9, 2017, 12:58 PM

Post #10 of 14 (671 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

Thanks for your replies. When i posted about going ahead and buying those coils, I had not seen your earlier post until after I hit the send button. Did not want u to think i was ignoring your good advice.

Actually it was the dealer that told my son that the code light would not not go off because of a well known problem that Scion has with that. It did not have any fault codes at the time, so the light display itself was bad per the dealer.

Do you think it might be possible that the CPU is bad and/or that the bad ac/heater blower motor has anything to do with all of this?

May just play around with it for a few more days since I have another car to use for now. But I agree that I probably have no choice but to drag it to a shop. Not sure if this is a pep-boys job. Do you think they might be able to handle it? All of my good past mechanics are dead by now, so guess I will have to figure out where to take it. Thanks again.

Thanks for your help


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 1:07 PM

Post #11 of 14 (662 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

There is no reason to suspect a computer yet. You haven't even tried t resolve them yet.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Sidom
Veteran / Moderator
Sidom profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 1:38 PM

Post #12 of 14 (658 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

As HT has suggested, you do want test these systems to track down the problem....I'm just going to add a quick footnote that may...or may not speed things along...

I've had coils on 2 Toyotas go bad that resulted in primary circuit failure codes on all cyls...These could possibly affect other systems...What I would do on this is replace #1 coil and possibly #4 due to the P0304.....(already has new plugs?).....Record all codes (and freeze frame data if you have the means to do that)....Clear all codes, run the car and see what comes back..

When you are doing the suggested voltage test, you really don't want to strip the wires...There is a method called "backprobing"...If you look at any of the connectors where the wire goes in...You will notice a soft rubbery material around the wire, that is weather packing....If you get a backprobe (or paperclip), spray some throttle body cleaner (or any safe electrical spray) on that "packing, you will be able to easily slip the probe in between the wire and packing and you can "feel" when it hits the metal connector on the end of the wire......You can now hook you meter lead to the end of the probe (paperclip) and get the readings you need without damaging the wire.....






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(This post was edited by Sidom on Jul 9, 2017, 1:41 PM)


05XBoxer
Novice

Jul 9, 2017, 2:04 PM

Post #13 of 14 (651 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

 

Per your suggestion, I erased past codes and took another reading. Of course many of the old codes are not there since the engine no longer runs. I had some of the old codes AND A FEW NEW CODES!

Codes now,....

PO017 SAME A Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit / Open Bank
PO113 SAME Intake Air Temp Sensor 1 Circut High
PO118 SAME Engine Collant Temp Sensor 1 Circuit High
PO122 SAME Throttle /Pedal Position
PO553 NEW ONE Power Steering Pressure
P2716 NEW ONE Pressure Control Solenoid D Electrical

I know there is nothing wrong with my power steering and nothing wrong with the other things until the car failed to start. I just cant help but think that faulty blower or maybe the CPU is WACO. Without any clue, if I were to replace anything at this point it would have to be the blower motor and the CPU. But not going to chance it unless someone feels like that might be what to do next. I know, I know....take it to the shop. lol Thanks for your help


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 9, 2017, 5:53 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 9, 2017, 2:09 PM

Post #14 of 14 (645 views)
  post locked   Re: Can bad plugs and coil pack generate MANY codes?  

OK, you appear to be taking the opposite approach of any advice you are given so I don't see any point in continuing this any further.

If you want to fix your problem with a computer and a blower motor, then go for it.

I'm going to close this now.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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