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truck will not start after being driven
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cowboy71584
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Jul 18, 2008, 8:24 PM
Post #1 of 41
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truck will not start after being driven
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I have a 94 chevy Z71 when the truck is cold its starts fine but after driving it and you go to start it the llights go dim and the starter just cicks I replace the starter and the batt and both batt trems were can I go from here it never has done this befor just started i was on my way home the head lights got real brit and the batt lite in the dash come on then went off and the radio truned off then on I have had the problem ever sence then
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 19, 2008, 7:53 AM
Post #2 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Alternator highly suspect. Test with known good, fully charged battery. Look for damage to wiring as it has demonstrated an overcharge which is destructive,
T
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cowboy71584
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Jul 19, 2008, 10:55 AM
Post #3 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Hey Tom thanks I will try doing that and see what happens what wires should I look into there is a whole lum of wires on the fire wall but are you talking about the ground and starter wires or all wires??? and if the problem keeps happening were else should I like??
Thanks
Justin
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 19, 2008, 11:56 AM
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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What I'm thinking with this is alternator is burned and or intermittently shorting inside which wicked loads the main wire to it. They can short like you dead shorted a battery with jumper cables - happened to my own (bat light went on and vehicle was dead totally in a couple miles! Mine stayed shorted and couldn't leave bat wire to alt on it to even try to charge or put in another battery) with no damage except alternator and battery wasn't happy about that so it got replaced and wasn't very old
Mine is a 97 C/K 5.7 with 105 amp alt. I think you 94 is a slightly different style alt. Just replaced one yesterday in a 96 Suburban with a new alt - car was found dead twice with no problems evident when checked and once a wild noise that quit before it could be verified so that alt just got tossed pro-actively as "likely" but was working and would test fine??
You may be playing ping pong with bad parts damaging new ones. Starter should be ok if it was. Starters don't like to have low amps at they get hot so you hear that tell-tale machine gun clicking when amps are too low to protect them.
If you don't trust your voltmeter you could just rig up a volt reading from a power port/cig lighter to see for yourself while driving - bet it's not right.......
T
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cowboy71584
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Jul 19, 2008, 12:04 PM
Post #5 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Hey there Tom
ok one more question would a bad alt or one that is wicked make a batt bubble and link the water in the batt out and when the trcuk is cold its starts fine but after you drive it and then go to try and start it again it will not start just cick even with me trying to jump it off but you let the truck set a few hours and it starts up just fine
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 19, 2008, 5:13 PM
Post #6 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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What is the operating voltage reading? ENGINE RUNNING - GIVE ME A #. You should also take a voltage "drop" reading when starter is engaged as that's informative about amps available or consumed by starting.
Batteries can be funky and regain some power when left alone - that and engine may be tighter when hot or warmed up.
The history of the bright and then dim, battery light on and now hard starting means check the alternator and the battery must be known good.
Jumping side post batteries is iffy without really strong cables so for now I'll call that inconlusive info. Cable ends at battery are a problem spot. Even with a strong jump you are jumping the battery bolts and if they can't deliver to the cables it's trouble there.
Alt, battery and all connections are on the table for the problems.......
T
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cowboy71584
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Jul 20, 2008, 12:11 PM
Post #7 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Hey there Tom
Thanks I will try that and hope it works would buying a high watt atl then whats on there mater or should I just stay with what I have?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 20, 2008, 9:30 PM
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Voltage ranges are the same. Amps output vary and you shouldn't need anything different than what it came with.
Battery voltage:
Charged at rest = 12.2
Ave engine running with no substantial electrical load = 13.5 - 14.8 give or take.
Running with heavy electrical load = not below 13v
Voltage drop when cranking = not to drop below about 9.5 volts (many will stay 10.5 or better) or amps delivery isn't up to par for load needed.
It does calculate but I think of batteries as amps ratings and alternators as maximum amps output rating and consumption items as how many watts they use especially light bulbs. Electric motors are expressed in amps required as well as circuits for the items covered by a fuse expressed in the amps available before fuse will blow,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 8:23 AM
Post #9 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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 Hey there Tom I got a question for you I replaced the Atl and the Batt but the Alt is getting really hot after the truck has been runing is this normal I compared mine to my dads and his got warm but not hot like mine you can not tauch mine its that hot what can it be this time and it did this with the old atl also
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 9:40 AM
Post #10 of 41
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Not normal unless it's working hard! What is it working hard to do? Hot to one person is warm to another so hard to define but I can touch a good alternator that isn't working hard. When (we've all done it) jumped a car with a very low battery the victim car's alternator goes nuts trying to charge up the near dead battery and can kill itself trying! They get far too hot to touch and best to give those a rest when noted in that case.
If you had lots of assessories on, headlights, blower fan, RWDef., and other high draw items all going it would be too hot to touch and still in the normal range.
Alts can do this to themselves - don't ask me exactly how but they can and still behave for a while like that. Just tossed one on a 96 GM 5.7 Suburban for mysterious problems like that for a brand new non GM exact fit one and so far no problems, noises, or surprise dead battery with nothing left on??
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Aug 5, 2008, 9:41 AM)
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 3:11 PM
Post #11 of 41
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Hey there Tom
When I frist put the Alt in I hooked the batt up and nothing else and started the truck the Batt gage showed one line over 14 I had nothing on no lights no fan no radio nothing I let it run about 5 mins and the Atl was so hot when I drop water on it the water bubbled then I trued the truck off check all my wires from the Alt to the Batt there fine I do know when I was haveing the starting problem were the truck would start fine cold but would not start hot and the Batt was bubbleing the Neg batt Term was hot but with the new Batt and new cables and a new atl and starter the Neg cable does not get hot just the Atl and so far the truck starts fine hot or cold but I know the Atl will be warm to the tauch after runing but it should not be so hot that water bubbles on it Right??? any ideas?? I do not want to burn the Atl or anything else up so were should I go from here and do you know a good place here in the Tallahassee Florida area to take and have it checked out if I can not fix or find the problem on my own??
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 5:04 PM
Post #12 of 41
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Ok: When you installed the new battery and alternator worked to charge it up it would get warm/hot just for that time and stabilize. 1/2 hour or so is all. I'm not saying alts run cool - they don't but not sizzling hot all the time either.
New batteries frequently are just filled with electrolite and shipped out which is not yet fully charged but usually will start a vehicle. I always charge new batteries first - some do come fully charged and some don't!
There's some draw on a battery to keep memory in puter, clock etc., there but it isn't that much. There is an allowable milliamp drain that is fine for weeks usually without a problem but even a little low the alt will know and first job is to get battery back up to fully charged. Just the start up takes perhaps as high as 5% out of a good new battery and if slow to start even more.
Things using juice you might forget about...... Daytime running lights, fuel pump, ignition, fuel injectors and brake lights of course when used. These draw more than you might think.
Bubbling battery: Most you can't even see anymore but they do a little. You shouldn't see one get wet or smell them (hydrogen) like burning egg type smell.
Truck still starts even when left a day if that ever happens? I'd try to see if there's a drain on it now when just sitting and go from there,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 5:33 PM
Post #13 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Hey Tom
I put the new Alt and Batt and Stater in about 4 days ago and I have driven the truck 3 of the 4 days so the Batt should be fullyed charged right??? but today when I was given the truck a tune up the alt was so hot it burned me and left marks and when I put water on it the water bubbled I can leave the truck off and it alwas starts again what would make the Alt so hot besides it alwas charging the old batt would bubble i can see it the water comeing out of the top but the new one has not done that yet and I do not want this batt to start being over charged and bubble like the old one did but were should I look to see why the New Alt is getting so hot and why is it getting so hot
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 6:22 PM
Post #14 of 41
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I'd disconnect and charge this battery up with an automatic battery charger till it says it's fine. It may never get there and be the problem new or not?? WallyWorld has a cool 2amp automatic job for just $18.44 - lights up green when done and shuts itself off!
Once known charged then start the truck and take the voltage output reading and feel the alt. If everything is off that you can shut off it will get warm but not the boiling water temp you suggest happens. 14v or so is fine when running - not to be over 15 EVER on these. If it does then the regulator isn't working right which is in this alternator so send it back before it kills the battery again
The battery/alternator thing is quite a marriage in a way. They have to cooperate with each other or all hell can break loose, lol!
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 6:25 PM
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Hey there Tom
I have charged the Batt and the reading is 14.4 and everthing is off the Atl is still hot has you know what lol and its the same with everything on so were should I go now
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 6:36 PM
Post #16 of 41
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the 14.4 is fine when running. It just shouldn't be working hard. How long does it take from cold for you to notice the hot alternator? Can you measure the temp? I can - and you've go me going and I'm going out right now to test a 97 C/K 105 amp alt truck that's all normal, does have DRLs and I'll leave them on....give me 1/2 an hour or so,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 6:41 PM
Post #17 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Hey there Tom
It takes about 10 mins or so to get hot has you know what and no I cant take a temp but its hot to the point were water buddles on it
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 7:30 PM
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Ok - I'm back! Had run truck a couple hours earlier so start temp with engine off was 100-109F - easy to touch of course.
Ran 5 min with just day running lights at idle and it actually cooled down to 94-104 depending on just where I tested.
Ran 5 more min with headlights now on and blower on high - most I can turn on that uses much juice and temps went to 115ish to 135ish depending on where and was hot to touch. Inside windings ran 155 or so. Note - fan from belt driven fan does blow fair air across this one that has no fins of its own. Drop of water did nothing as expected.
Just for laughs - the exhaust manifold was 387F at #1 cylinder! Neat little infrared no touch thermo gadget smaller than a cell phone!
Sooooo - your alternator is working at something so gotta figure out what?
Is this still draining battery after being driven as subject line says? That AND it puts out 14+ volts while running?? If so - that doesn't jive or the battery is junk.
If something is using up amps unseen and not blowing fuses obviously then pulling fuses on item you don't need to run it could tell what's using up the power.
You can put a test light with incandescent bulb between disconnected neg battery post (hole) and the cable and it shouldn't light with everything off - keys out. It would with delay interior lights or a hood light. Cancel those (unplug any hood light) and override interior lights and start pulling fuses till test light goes out. That's the circuit with a drain on it - that's all you know but would be nice to know that much to begin with.
If all tests show nothing an alternator can do this to itself and still run the truck and charge battery. Don't ask why - I just know they can do that all by their onesies.
One more test: Test light trick again at battery and cable if test light stays on then unhook (red?) eyelet cable from back of alt under a rubber hood thing and now alt is disempowered but vehicle would run without it. This is a live wire so don't let it touch anything with battery connected. With battery connected that wire should not react when touching back to stud on alternator where it goes or light a test light between it and the alternator. THAT WOULD BE HANDLING A HOT WIRE AND AYOR AS IT CAN SHORT AND TOOLS TOUCHING IT CAN GROUND OUT SO DON'T DO THAT UNLESS YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE UP TO AND CAREFUL ABOUT IT. THAT'S A HOT WIRE AND WOULD BE A DEAD SHORT IF IT TOUCHED ANYTHING GROUND!
Gees - this is fun . Let me know what you find. So far we know it's hotter than it should be. May need to start a new thread with a summary of what's known and done so far as I'm getting lost already,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 7:42 PM
Post #19 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Hey there Tom
The old batt would die and not start the truck after is was driven but would start after cooling off a few hours But I got a New Batt and it has not died at all and starts the truck cold or hot i will try the test with the test light and the neg batt term so your telling me to take the neg batt cable off the batt and put a test light to the batt and the cable or just to the cable it self or just to the batt it self and pull fuses??? i will try that it the morning what would be next if the lite stays on with all fueses pulled??? and if I do find a fues were the lite goes out then what should I look for???
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 7:46 PM
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Just note which one if anything comes up with that at all and we'll try to guess why from there,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 5, 2008, 7:50 PM
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OK I will do that in the morning so to make sure I have this right I need to take off the neg Batt term and then put the test lite in the Neg Batt hole on the batt and on the Neg Cable at the same time then lite will come on then i need to pull fues tell the lite goes out Right
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 5, 2008, 8:52 PM
Post #22 of 41
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Re: truck will not start after being driven
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Right - neg battery hole (put a bolt in it for a clip if needed) thru a test light to loose end of neg cable. If there's anything ON it will light the test light. Test that by turning something on and see for yourself. Again - test light or an automotive 12v bulb with socket and wires to clip to but a bulb with a filiment not an LED as that might light with the miniscule draw of computer memory, clocks - whatevers that small.
Let me know what you find or questions later. I'm about done for the day with still a bunch of notices of reply made and regular emails coming in like nuts!
Later,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 6, 2008, 8:48 AM
Post #23 of 41
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Hey there Tom
Ok I did the test and when I pulled the CSTY fues it controls the dome Lites the test lite went off I can live with out dome lites but It also is comtroling my radio is that normal and where should I go now also when the CSTY fues pulled the Alt was warm but no were near has hot has befor so thats a good thing but how do I fix the problem and or aleast get my radio back lol
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 6, 2008, 6:59 PM
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Re:94 Chev Z71 truck - amps drain
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Hi,
Sorry to take so long this time - I actually had some things to do!
Ok: Seems you notice a difference with this fuse removed. I'm uncertain of that one if you have "delay" interior lights and not sure where the box is for that and you may need to start and probably should start a new thread on the specific problem known so far as this is quite a read already.
Does this have the option to "cancel" the interior lights alltogether. My 97 has a button and then won't come on ever with doors open or not with override. I do have the reading lamps that will stay on and kill a battery. Are yours on by any chance? Amazingly these little bulbs use some real juice!
Story: This is my 97 c/K Cheyenne, short cab PU no pw or locks - fairly stripped. I work on a 96 Suburban LS loaded with the identical dash and all the toys. Both have delay interior lights such that they stay on when you close the door dammit leaving you in the rain waiting to see if they really go out! I guess they consider that a handy feature and it can't be defeated TMK. The truck also has a "cargo" lamp that's usesless for intended purpose and is linked to all this too. Truck has no known fault right now. It did gobble up an alternator a few years ago and killed it and battery withing 10 minutes! No known reason - just while driving along! Suburban has done the same twice!
Back to yours. Try canceling interior lights with override and see if that alone will solve this for now. Next we need to know what and where the delay box is in this one to replace it. It may be up over gas pedal under dash - not sure.
I didn't think radio was involved with CTSY lighting and there may be a clue there to bring up in a new post and that could be the drain which seems minor but does manage to make the alt overwork to maintain battery in this,
T
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cowboy71584
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Aug 6, 2008, 7:04 PM
Post #25 of 41
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Re: Re:94 Chev Z71 truck - amps drain
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Hey there Tom
My truck is a 94 and does not have delayed lights or a button on the dash I just pulled the fues and the Alt seems to hot be so hot I did get a temp reading after I drive to town and back home it was 130 and it was hot to the tauch but no were near has hot has befor so what should I do next
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