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apparently seized battery retainer bolt


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Bumperbozo
User

Jan 13, 2018, 12:19 PM

Post #1 of 23 (201 views)
apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

The tall bolt to the side of the battery that I think keeps it held down seems to be seized on this 1996 Ford E150 5.8L. Sprayed PB Blaster on it, grabbed with with the vice grips...no luck. The vice grips slip even with the tightest I can get em.

What's the next step? bend the head to the side for more leverage? will i do more harm than good that way, or is there something I'm missing? anyone dealt with this before?




(This post was edited by Bumperbozo on Jan 13, 2018, 2:07 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jan 13, 2018, 1:53 PM

Post #2 of 23 (192 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

The pic is too wide to read
script very well but saw it.
That doesn't look original to
me at all. Probably a double nut or
something under all that to undo it
now would work.
The other is stronger and better
grip thru better vice grips or there are
sockets that will grab that no problem.


Wrong set up IMO was created and you'll
have to again when everything is busted.
They do make an assortment of battery
trays that may fit just careful how you attach
that and make certain it's all clear of touching
hood or anything to mess up the show,


T



Hammer Time
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Jan 13, 2018, 1:58 PM

Post #3 of 23 (186 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

I deleted your photo because it was way too large. Reduce the size and you can repost it if you like.

Yes, that is the factory hold down. all you can do is try to slowly work it loose. If you can't do that and it ends up breaking off, you will just have to replace the battery tray.



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Bumperbozo
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Jan 13, 2018, 2:08 PM

Post #4 of 23 (175 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

that better?


Hammer Time
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Jan 13, 2018, 2:11 PM

Post #5 of 23 (169 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

Much



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Bumperbozo
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Jan 13, 2018, 2:12 PM

Post #6 of 23 (167 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In


In Reply To
Probably a double nut or
something under all that to undo it
now would work.

jeez, i getting under there would be a total B****

In Reply To
The other is stronger and better
grip thru better vice grips or there are
sockets that will grab that no problem.


can you post an example of said sockets? I used the closest fitting chrome socket on a socket wrench, but it just rounded


Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 13, 2018, 2:21 PM

Post #7 of 23 (161 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

Pic isn't going to show for me don't use them or let this happen with vice grips was the first problem. Just ask you can buy one or the set for a few that are close
are reversed spirals that self tighten in the counter clockwise direction.
There's some greenish corrosion showed suggest you really have to tend to lubing things or this will happen all over this vehicle worse at battery that went all wet like that one did is acidic eats thru almost everything around it.


Do try to look at the underside at least if a threaded hole could spray PB there as well. That stuff works but can take time like overnight but still need a good grip.
Air wrench (impact) on a six point might even get it now?


T



Hammer Time
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Jan 13, 2018, 2:31 PM

Post #8 of 23 (157 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

The threads are under the plastic block. The bolt is so long that it tends to twist when trying to loosen it. Impact will never work. Too much flex in the bolt.

It's an 8mm or 5/16 head. Use a 6 point socket if you haven't already destroyed it.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Bumperbozo
User

Jan 13, 2018, 2:46 PM

Post #9 of 23 (153 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

yeah, it was a 6 point that i used. maybe because it was harbor freight it wasn't as tight a fit as it should have been, but like I said, i think it's effed now.


Bumperbozo
User

Jan 13, 2018, 2:47 PM

Post #10 of 23 (151 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In


In Reply To
The threads are under the plastic block.



do you know if it is double nut as he suggested?


Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 13, 2018, 2:50 PM

Post #11 of 23 (147 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

That's just one way you could lock the bolt if it was already drilled out. Assorted hardware types never end when done choose something that wont do this again,


T



Bumperbozo
User

Jan 13, 2018, 6:05 PM

Post #12 of 23 (131 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In


In Reply To
Just ask you can buy one or the set for a few that are close
are reversed spirals that self tighten in the counter clockwise direction.

T


so for example if the bolt is 5/16 as my man suggests, would I use the 5/16 spiral extractor socket, or would I use a smaller one to make it bite? trying to decide which kit to get.


(This post was edited by Bumperbozo on Jan 13, 2018, 6:07 PM)


Hammer Time
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Jan 13, 2018, 6:23 PM

Post #13 of 23 (123 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

No, you're not going to use any kind of extractor. That will only make it worse.

Get a very good set of vice grips with sharp teeth and try the grab the shank of the bolt, as far below the head as you can and see if you can break it loose with that.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jan 13, 2018, 6:25 PM)


Bumperbozo
User

Jan 13, 2018, 7:27 PM

Post #14 of 23 (117 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

it's really crowded in there and I was hoping to avoid taking out a bunch of stuff to get lower. can't get to the bottom of the bolt from where I'm at.

i was looking at this set:

https://www.amazon.com/...ask_simstreat_c_sav0

yeah, it will scar up the bolt head more, but as it is it is useless, so how am I gonna make it worse?


(This post was edited by Bumperbozo on Jan 13, 2018, 7:28 PM)


Discretesignals
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Jan 13, 2018, 8:25 PM

Post #15 of 23 (109 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

You can buy a battery hold down kit at the parts store pretty cheap. It includes the bolt and block. I'd let that penetrating oil sit on there over night. Hopefully it works itself down in the threads. Also try smacking the top of the bolt with a hammer while twisting on it.





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nickwarner
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Jan 14, 2018, 12:37 AM

Post #16 of 23 (95 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

that bolt is screwed. If you are lucky enough to get it out throw it out. Run a tap down the hole before you put a new one in. Otherwise grind out the head with an angle grinder so you can get the battery out then take the whole battery tray to a car shop or a welding shop to get the remnants out. Expect o break bolts every step of the way. I use a different formula of penetrating oil with a lot of success. Its a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Get a cheap squirt bottle to apply it. Does a hell of a job and is the only thing shy of a torch to get seized things to break.


Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 14, 2018, 4:17 AM

Post #17 of 23 (92 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

Bumperbozo - all: Bumper - we've all been thru this many times with assorted approaches. Nick mentioned the torches/heat with the battery out you should be able to now still would need to know the surroundings of what that could harm or wreck. This crap can take time mostly the assortment of stuff to make up a sturdy hold-down when ready is a must you can't allow the battery to tip over or positive cable to touch metal - severe bumps even sudden stops and starts.
The assortment of tools, torches, extractors, drills and up to tapping threaded holes if needed becomes mandatory at some point - know the full compliment of tools if it's going to go nasty on you would way out cost just sending it out. You are here to do this yourself so the saga is on for now.


Nothing is really hard about this just take some time and you should want the end result to last a full round till another battery is needed and be no hassle then.


Looked back at the battery? Wrong one for that truck! You are way underpowered @ just 675 CCA = Cold Cranking Amps for a V8 truck so it was wrong already last round.
It was the last time causing you fits this time so unless you want this every few years do it well. Grease the new hardware it will never happen again at least Nick and myself deal with wild rusty crap if we or better speak for myself know I'd see this again my own or another's would forever more be a while you wait job.


No battery is no better than 4 flats and no fuel you aren't going anywhere so it totally matters to get this right at the end.
Can you get that battery out of the way now? That would increase your working room a lot plus the battery is a hazard all by itself. Know that wet yuk is probably highly acidic will burn thru skin, harm metals and wires all around that area. You could neutralize it with plain baking soda.


What seems like routine is turning out not so. The tools you use can't be touched without cleaning those too nor your hands or clothing of find holes in them or worse seat of vehicle and so on.
Time! You just may be out looking for the battery tray we've mentioned for this. RV places and better automotive outlets should have all this stuff on hand. Hardware of nuts and bolts you may not find all in one place.
Just do consider the whole scope of this it's not over with just getting that bolt out. The new battery should be correct over 800 CCA for this IMO make sure what you do will accommodate the correct battery if this gets harder. Still appears to me it was hacked up once before perhaps long before you or by another is costing you the headache now,


Tom



Hammer Time
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Jan 14, 2018, 10:15 AM

Post #18 of 23 (80 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In


Quote
The new battery should be correct over 800 CCA for this IMO


Tom, are you working for the battery company? .............LOL

OEM says 650 but obviously over 800 would have some reserve power.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Jan 14, 2018, 11:03 AM

Post #19 of 23 (76 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

No I don't! You'd think so. There is too much at stake over a flipping battery always was just worse now. AMPs drop of course while starter cranks but how long are they enough? What happens is it drops either out of safe range for electrical brush motors which the dang starter is and burns it out! CCA is based on 32+F not the flippin' Arctic Blast recently OMG the things that fail!
So the paradox is since there is a size that should be adhered to which to choose highly depends on quality of the maker and how it was handled all along the way. Same size case could be 1,000 CCA but making the plates closer risks internal shorting? There's an inch for the dandruff (my term) flakes to pile up at the bottom on purpose if you shorten how high that the pile shorts plates you can do that to a 2 year old battery just tip it over! Pooof, that one is all done if the whole vehicle tipped over for example. No problem get it going and alternator fights with the short and take that and wires out too.


If room use two 6V in series both must match age and brand totally. Not so fast there isn't much great stuff to do that properly.
Nothing wrong with 800 CCA I can get excellent life if good new out of that for a V8. Brushes haven't changed since forever so when underpowered they'll glaze up which is defeated with the hammer trick once or twice was all the fault of keeping or using a battery too long or not caring for it once would be enough but nobody does.
I'll quit beating on this. So Ford says 675 is enough and is for their best interest. They also thought the Pinto/Bobcat would be a best sellers too to ruin/stop competition from the then "Japanese" and the famous VW Bug/Beetle initial version. General point is vehicle maker just wants their products to make it off warranty is almost universal keep the first buyer real happy screw it beyond that - IMO and some credible sources,


Tom



Bumperbozo
User

Jan 17, 2018, 2:25 PM

Post #20 of 23 (46 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In


In Reply To
that bolt is screwed. If you are lucky enough to get it out throw it out. Run a tap down the hole before you put a new one in. Otherwise grind out the head with an angle grinder so you can get the battery out then take the whole battery tray to a car shop or a welding shop to get the remnants out. Expect o break bolts every step of the way. I use a different formula of penetrating oil with a lot of success. Its a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Get a cheap squirt bottle to apply it. Does a hell of a job and is the only thing shy of a torch to get seized things to break.


acetone, eh? well i tried banging it some more and tried grabbing it with the vise grips all different ways, including at the shank as Hammer suggested. wouldn't budge, at least at the pressure i was able to apply. That angle grinder is starting to sound like an idea, but drilling out the shaft seems like a tedious affair.

If i were to try the spiral extractor sockets, would they get twisted up and tilted, so that it becomes very difficult to turn, because the head is not flush against a surface?

I did manage to snap this shot of underneath the retainer:


looking at it now, i see why i was not able to turn the square nut with an adjustable wrench, because it appears to have a kind of door stopper wedge coming out from the metal on its front face. But if that is where the bolt threads, does that mean that if I cut off the head at the washer with an angle grinder, take off the retainer, will this nut just push down and come out?


Sidom
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Jan 17, 2018, 3:17 PM

Post #21 of 23 (42 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

The nut is spot welded...

I would use a pry bar and pry the battery hold down back far enough to get the battery out, since you have already soaked it, I would try a small pipe wrench on the long bolt and see if you can turn it....






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Bumperbozo
User

Jan 17, 2018, 3:42 PM

Post #22 of 23 (33 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In


In Reply To
The nut is spot welded...


Just so I can put this angle out of my mind, do you say that based on the picture, or based on your experience of Ford battery trays?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jan 18, 2018, 7:29 AM

Post #23 of 23 (13 views)
Re: apparently seized battery retainer bolt Sign In

That square nut shouldn't spin at all! Why the top side doesn't now is beyond me? Other approach is hold that square one securely and tighten the top side till it busts off leaving you a square hole to put a new set up of bolt and fastener(s) underside and be done with this.
BTW - that doesn't even look that bad vs many I've seen so don't know why this is giving you so much trouble. Yep - higher quality and assortment of tools this should be nothing to deal with I really think is part of what's screwing you up,
T







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