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Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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EricInGA
New User
Mar 21, 2014, 9:13 AM
Post #1 of 14
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Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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I have a 2000 Chrysler LHS, the battery goes dead if I drive it for more than a couple hours, a local parts store Electrical test shows the alternator/generator is working correctly, it also shows a “Surface bleed” (???) I took a ice pick type electrical sensor (lamp) tool and disconnected the negative cable from the battery, connected the tester between the negative cable and the battery neg post and then removed each fuse one by one, 6 fuses made the light come on when they were pulled, I then put a multi meter on those 6 fuses and read the voltage each circuit pulled;1. Horn, pulled 5v
2. Illum/Park lamp, pulled 12v
3. Interior Lamp, pulled 12v
4. ASD, pulled 8v
5. Head lamp lo, pulled 11v
6. TCM, pulled 10v
Which if any should or should not be pulling a current (making the light come on)?
How does one find where the short is in the circuit or circuits?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 21, 2014, 9:40 AM
Post #2 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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IampsI current draw is it measured in volts. Its measured in amps in milIampsSecond if you are having a problem with the engine is running is not a parasitic draw is a charging problem
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kev2
Veteran
Mar 21, 2014, 9:41 AM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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before we start-
is the check eng light on?
is there a remote starter or any added elec component ?
todays vehicles have modules and it is necessary to wait for them to "go to sleep" as they remain energized for awhile after the key is REMOVED - consider that when probing circuits.
Do you have a DVOM - voltmeter- we want to check voltage at battery, alternator output and battery charging could be different.
I suspect you will answer yes to something I posted and that will guide us.
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EricInGA
New User
Mar 21, 2014, 11:26 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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Local parts store put their “Analyzer” on the vehicle and said the Alternator/generator is outputting the correct voltage, the battery was recharging and in great condition, device said there was a “Surface bleed” which the tech said it means a slow/low voltage drain while key is off.
The question is, do any of these 6 listed items draw power after the key is out of the ignition?
I guess what I need now is a Wiring Diagram for the year 2000 LHS so I can trace the wires down on the 6 circuits?
Oh, the car does have a Factory alarm system so that would draw a low voltage, which circuit would that be connected to?
(This post was edited by EricInGA on Mar 21, 2014, 11:28 AM)
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kev2
Veteran
Mar 21, 2014, 12:00 PM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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An often used procedure-
wait for modules (TCM BCM ) to shut down.
test lamp between battery cable and neg terminal - removing fuses to see what circuit causes test lamp to go out.
the fact the alternator cannot keep up with the - surface bleed- would have me confirming battery voltage eng off and again when running...
I asked about- check engine light and added electrical equiptment- remote starter - AUDIO , lighting - anything NOT factory installed? for a reason
checking a factory diagram against these unknowns is wasted time...
PS: fuses dash or underhood? have numbers 1-10 or alpha charactors A-Z - easier to ID on a diagram
(This post was edited by kev2 on Mar 21, 2014, 12:04 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 21, 2014, 1:24 PM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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I don' t believe for a second that that car is starting on its own and losing a battery because of excessive draw while the engine is running.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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EricInGA
New User
Mar 21, 2014, 1:48 PM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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No Check Engine light, nothing but factory equip, I am on my third battery in 20 months of owning the car. Right after I bought the car the battery went dead (bad cell) no biggy it was 4 years old, first battery I buy last about 5 months, then it starts dying, needing to be jumped every once in awhile till one day the battery is dead, NTB said bad cell, swapped out battery, almost barely 3 months go by and the battery starts dying, needing to be jumped, took car to Auto store, they run analyzer and say everything is good except battery and what the machine says is a “Surface bleed” Nowhere near a NTB to swap batteries again so I bought another new battery from Wal-Mart and where not even 3 months and the brand new battery is dead, won’t take a charge. Last time it was drive (last Monday) it was raining so it was drove for just over two hours with Headlights, Wipers and factory stereo playing, that’s it, turn off car at gas station and won’t start, I can jump the battery, run the car for 20 minutes turn it off and it won’t start the car again without a jump.
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GC
User
Mar 21, 2014, 2:50 PM
Post #8 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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Is the battery repeatedly going dead overnight and damaging the battery, or is the battery just fine until one day you shut it off and shortly after it wont start?
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Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob
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kev2
Veteran
Mar 21, 2014, 3:05 PM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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Myself and colleague are noticing the same issue- claiming the alternator is charging yet running the engine
is a load beyond its capability but the draw is parasitic ?
Is this battery easily accessible or is this the year they were tucked away and removed thru wheel well? And there is a remote jump post maybe?
I ask because I am wondering where the voltage was checked-
do not assume no CEL no problem- always scan many reasons.
(This post was edited by kev2 on Mar 21, 2014, 3:07 PM)
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EricInGA
New User
Mar 21, 2014, 3:34 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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the year 2000 LHS is the "Pull the Tire to get to the battery" (geniuses) model! We disconnected the Negative post on the engine compartment firewall (the negative cable goes from neg battery post up to a post on the firewall where you can hook jumper cables to jump the car) Positive cable does the same as the Negative.
The analyzer connected to the factory data hook up, it tested the car while off, while running and again while off (with lights off and on), it was about a fifteen minute test. I had the test run again just two days later at a different store (same nation chain) it gave the same results. Alternator Good, Battery Good but a “Surface Bleed”.
When I put the fuses back in to run a second test the dashboard lights flickered and the headlights were flickering but they all stopped after turning the car off and waiting a few minutes turned car on and nothing flickered.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 21, 2014, 4:26 PM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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You need to take it to a real mechanic at a licensed and insured repair shop that specializes in electrical. Parts counter monkeys are not trained to diagnose vehicles.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 21, 2014, 7:39 PM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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Zackery! Eric - gotta get away from the chains, wallyworld and somehow someway know this or yet another freaking battery is good, connections all good and charging system working as intended and so far nobody has really done squat for you.
Just know that by the time you have some issue battery or charging and jumping all the time you are killing that battery good ones can only take so much.
Not fun that this is the pest of one to get to and swap out even makes it all worse. Mopars IMO plain don't like any crap about batteries more than some. It's primal. Good battery and charging system - no parasitic drains beyond what is normal already discussed.
Stop listening to those idiots - "Surface Drain" !! What the hell does that mean? Whatever they meant it's happened to more than one!
Know something: A battery is key or forget anything else about it. It has to be well made and handled like fresh eggs too, no dropping it in shipping, installation, banging it around or left discharged. It's hard enough with the best of places and type/brands but no tolerance for the boneheaded non techs all along with this.
This is not a place to bargain shop for the battery or people who handle it,
T
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kev2
Veteran
Mar 22, 2014, 10:25 AM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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my 2 cents- the cables battery to jump post all the connections there need to be inspected- seriously checked - your description seams that an issue with power getting distributed and interrupted - the suspect is those connections.
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nickwarner
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/ Moderator
Mar 22, 2014, 3:38 PM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: Not sure if these should be pulling juice
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With Kev here. Just had the same vintage Intrepid a few weeks back. Alternator and battery fine, connections clean, still acting up. Even a fully charged battery wouldn't let it start, but a jump would. The cables from the battery were garbage inside the insulation. Built him a new set and has been trouble free.
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