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Not Battery, Not Alternator, NO IDEA WHAT
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ExtraTrstl
New User
Sep 12, 2007, 2:14 PM
Post #1 of 5
(1700 views)
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Not Battery, Not Alternator, NO IDEA WHAT
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Hello, I just signed up for this specific question as I need to make sure my car is tip-top by this Monday.
Copy/Pasted from my post on the cartalk.com forums :)
I'm a novice at best, so pardon the lack of technical jargon and what have you. The story is long, but if you're looking for a head scratcher I probably got it.
I've got a 1998 Pontiac Bonneville SE with close to 200,000 miles on it (bought it at 130K). 6 Cylinder 3.8 Liter. No major problems with it before except a dead fuel pump, and my engine "vapor locked" once. Both of these problems happened 3+ years ago.
I recently had an issue with my car in that it seemed it started hard (it would turn over more than it usually did and it would shake when the car started). I don't know how long this went on and I kind of just took it to mean that the car was getting old as I didn't see any other characteristics manifest themselves. However, about 3 weeks ago my car wouldn't start. I got a jump and upon further driving noticed that my batter gauge would fluctuate wildly. It'd read 13 or 14 volts after I started it up (and after the jump it read about this) yet when I was driving it, it would dip to as low as 5 or so.
I called my father and he figured the battery was the problem. We took out the old battery, which did seem to be old and somewhat corroded, replaced it and GREAT! It seemed to start up smoother, the gauge didn't flux at all and everything seemed hunky dory.
Side note: The battery that's in the car now is a "blemish" (meaning aesthetic imperfections only). I was told that THIS IS NOT A REFURB (but I am now taking that with a grain of salt). I fear mentioning this as I don't want to insert bias into my question, but it should be known. I've known people with these batteries and they've not had problems.
I drove the car for a couple weeks and then the battery gauge thing started happening again, where it would fluctuate, sometimes wildly and dangerously low. I took it to a local parts store and got both the battery and alternator tested. They said the battery was OK and that the alternator was dead, it was only putting out 19 amps when it should be putting out around 95.
I bought a brand new, though off-brand, alternator, figuring I don't need two non-new parts to question if it didn't work, and installed it with the help of my ever-so-gracious father. Immediately after we installed it the car started up like a dream and the needle was firmly planted (an eensy bit of shake) near the 14. It ran smoother and sounded better, too.
While driving it home that night the battery gauge started doing its thing again though less consistently. It'd *mostly* stay around 14 (just under) but it would dip down a bit. Typically not as much as before but there was one instance when it did go waaaay down. However, that wild of a fluctuation has not happened since that night, which was last night.
Side note: That night, I was able to link the needle flux to something odd. It dipped noticeably twice when I was at a stop light and turned the wheel hard left. It only did it twice, despite subsequent turning of the wheel and I haven't been able to recreate this situation, so perhaps it was just a fluke.
I drove the car around for probably about 30+ mins that night figuring the battery needed a good charging after all that. I also took it back to the parts store and both the battery and alternator checked out OK.
Today (the day after I installed the new alternator) I started the car up and it seemed fine. The needle was again near the 14 and it looked to move only very little. I chalked up the previous night's needle fun to the fact that the battery was probably near-dead and the alternator was most likely very busy trying to charge it back up.
I took it out at lunchtime today to run an errand and it seemed OK. Very little flux again. I stopped at home to get something and when I came back out, maybe 10 minutes later, it started up real hard again. I watched the needle move as I drove it and it did seem to move, perhaps slightly more than before (perhaps not), but it never went much below the 14.
Another thing I noticed, though this could be completely unrelated, is that I seem to be running slightly hotter than I did before. This could be due to the fact that I have a working alternator as, I assume, a working alternator will produce more heat than a busted one. I also noticed that the heat didn't necessarily correspond to the activity of the car, meaning that if I revved up, the needle sometimes went down (sometimes up). The temperature gauge now seems to be moving more than usual, but only after I replaced the alternator. Like I said though, this could be unrelated.
I'm going to let it go for a couple days as is and see if it starts to balance itself out as I think it could still be an issue of the alternator trying to supply most of the power it produces to the battery. However, I doubt this will solve anything.
So, I am MORE THAN OPEN to any suggestions anyone has regarding this. The only other thing I can think of is a short or other electrical problem SOMEWHERE.
A hearty thank you and good day to all who read this far.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 13, 2007, 4:54 AM
Post #2 of 5
(1695 views)
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Re: Not Battery, Not Alternator, NO IDEA WHAT
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Batteries and alternators depend on each other. Either one can kill the other. A blemished battery is a bad idea from the get go. I won't even buy a battery from chain stores as they probably don't know how to handle them. They are a series of plates close together but can't touch and are imursed in electrolite. If dropped or mishandled and the plates touch it's a direct short and if the car is running the alt will way over work and can burn it out.
Battery can have an intermittent problem and test fine and not be. Alt brushes can be burned and be intermittent - otherwise a problem with them is usually constant. You are playing ping pong and now neither are really known good!
The overheating?? Is the belt tight enough and is it right at the end of the tensioner's ability to self adjust? It may be slipping. Could it be slipping enough to not turn the water pump enough - probably not and the overheating is probably a separate issue. Alt working hard is nothing to a good cooling system.
Check the plug at the alternator and see if it's burned looking or any wires to it. Make certain all battery cable connections are good - not just tight but clean and tight.
I'd take that battery back just because it's now just a big question as to whether it's a good one or not,
T
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ExtraTrstl
New User
Sep 13, 2007, 8:40 PM
Post #3 of 5
(1689 views)
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Re: Not Battery, Not Alternator, NO IDEA WHAT
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Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. FYI> I tried a new-new battery and I still have the problem.
I'm figuring that I have an electrical problem somewhere, a bad ground or frayed wires or something. I think that my needle fluctuations are abnormal because (1)it did not used to do this, (2) it will fluctuate even in idle without intervention (3) I had a recent problem where I was in idle and the needle dipped (fairly harshly) suddenly and all my lights went dim.
I ran into this problem with my last car as well, and I think it was due to the fact that I had an unprotected entrance into my electrical system for water/moisture/etc in the form of a busted headlight case. It got so bad that my entire electric system (internal lights, external lights, etc.) would flicker as I was going over bumps and things.
At this point my solution is to ignore it and hope it goes away.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 14, 2007, 7:47 AM
Post #4 of 5
(1687 views)
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Re: Not Battery, Not Alternator, NO IDEA WHAT
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For whatever this is to draw so much current it makes the headlights dim which is more than your starter motor should do, it almost has to be a direct short on unfused cable from battery to solonoid. I don't really know if a solonoid could do this by itself but perhaps??
Just a thought,
T
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ExtraTrstl
New User
Sep 14, 2007, 8:17 AM
Post #5 of 5
(1684 views)
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Re: Not Battery, Not Alternator, NO IDEA WHAT
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Thanks for the help. I'm going to investigate it a bit more (connections, etc.) and try and look at it in the dark to see if I can see a spark or anything. It's not dangerous yet, but I think it could be. Once again, thanks!
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