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robodoc
Novice
Feb 23, 2013, 4:50 PM
Post #1 of 16
(1655 views)
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1998 Dodge Avenger 2.5L 170K. Just bought this car on the cheap. Drove about 8 miles and the car quit suddenly. Thought I was out of gas. Put gas in...no go. Brought home and pulled gas line off in front of fuel filter. Pump is pumping fuel. Fuel looks to be reasonably clean. Re-attached fuel line. Won't start. Pulled a plug wire and inserted a screwdriver an got close to ground and cranked it. No spark. What next?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2013, 5:33 PM
Post #2 of 16
(1638 views)
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Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector within the first 2 seconds of turning the key on. key on.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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robodoc
Novice
Feb 23, 2013, 6:13 PM
Post #3 of 16
(1620 views)
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A Noid light? Can I make one or do they sell them?
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speed
User
Feb 23, 2013, 6:27 PM
Post #4 of 16
(1614 views)
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Most parts stores sell them, i know for sure advance auto sells a set of 6 for 6 dif. Types of injectors it plugs into the connector for an injector and flashes when the injector is supposed to be opening from the pulses sent by the ecm, so you may need a help to see if it lights while cranking the engine if you can't see it.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2013, 6:33 PM
Post #5 of 16
(1614 views)
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You can buy one for under $10
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 23, 2013, 7:21 PM
Post #6 of 16
(1604 views)
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Also check for trouble codes being stored in the PCM. Write down the code numbers.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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robodoc
Novice
Feb 24, 2013, 9:54 AM
Post #7 of 16
(1581 views)
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Got a set of Noid lights. Heading to the car shortly. I'll report back. Thanks.
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robodoc
Novice
Feb 24, 2013, 11:43 AM
Post #8 of 16
(1575 views)
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None of the Noid lights were Dodge specific. The Bosch one seemed to fit. Is that ok or do they make Dodge specific. Where do I find electrical schematics for this car?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 24, 2013, 11:58 AM
Post #9 of 16
(1574 views)
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Did you plug the NOID light in one of the injector connectors and cranked the engine to see if it flashes?
Did you scan the PCM for trouble codes? Maybe it is storing a CKP or CMP code.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Feb 24, 2013, 12:35 PM
Post #10 of 16
(1570 views)
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No there is no Dodge specific ones......The one that fits into the connector should work....Plug it in, crank the engine and see if it flashes..
Also on your next trip out there, check the timing belt to make sure it isn't broken or stripped...
Does the engine sound "different" when you crank it over.....These ones can be a pita to remove the dist cap, so if you can't get to that to see if the rotor is moving when cranked, take the oil cap off & see if you can see on the rocker arms move or if you can't see the rockers, you can try to pry one of the cam gear covers out a little bit and see if you can see the gear move while someone cranks its.....
These ones are good for a lot of damage when the belt goes so hopefully all is good there.......If it's not the problem.....After you get it running, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put it on your "to do list"......and change out the pump as well......I've seen pumps go bad a lot on this model & its belt driven, so it takes the belt with it when it goes....
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robodoc
Novice
Feb 28, 2013, 4:14 PM
Post #11 of 16
(1529 views)
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All good ideas. I've been working on my kitchen remodel and away from the sons new project for his dad. Let me update. Troubleshot from a schematic I downloaded. ASD relay works when forced with jumper wires but will not fire when in its socket. If I force a grounfd onto pin 67 of the PCM activating the ASD I can pick up 12vdc at the fuel But I cannot get the noid to light due to what appears to be no ground coming from the PCM. I'm kind of finding myself in a chicken or the egg paradox. Is the PCM bad, or is it shuting down the ASD because it's reading a problem and doing what it should do. I've been probing around the camshaft sensor and I'm reading the schematic. My son had some info that said I should read 7-10vdc on the yellow wire which goes to both cam and crank sensors from the PCM pin #44. I first read 4.99 vdc which seemed right for digital logic but then say it up around 9 vdc which was what my son's freind had said. I've rechecked and seen both voltages. Can any one tell me where a ladder logic or pin-out desription for the PCM can be obtained.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2013, 4:59 PM
Post #12 of 16
(1522 views)
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Have you even tried checking for stored codes in the PCM? This tells you two things:
(1) The PCM is alive and able to run diagnostics
(2) If there are codes related to the problem your having
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2013, 5:10 PM
Post #13 of 16
(1517 views)
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You know, you must be an engineer...................
I know that because only an engineer would turn a simple troubleshooting technique into a technical encyclopedia.
You have no spark, no injector pulse and your ASD is dropping after prime ........................... check the crank sensor, common failure on that car.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2013, 5:34 PM
Post #14 of 16
(1510 views)
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The cam sensor is also another component that will cause a no start when it doesn't send a signal. The cam sensor is inside the distributor which is a commonly replaced part.
Both sensors are hall effect sensors. You need a graphing multimeter or lab scope to see the signals. The crank signal is too fast for a volt meter. The volt meter will just average the voltage out.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 28, 2013, 5:36 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 28, 2013, 5:39 PM
Post #15 of 16
(1503 views)
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That's true but will a Cam sensor knock out an ASD relay during cranking?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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