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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 6:02 AM
Post #1 of 14
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99 suburban, won't crank
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i just swapped motors in my 99 suburban, now when i turn the key to the crank position, nothing happens, there are 2 large posts on the starter where the battery cable and the solenoid wires go, could i have those on backwards, i know the puple wire from the ignition switch goes on the small post. i know everything else is hooked up ,as far as the wiring harness goes, there are no extra unplugged plugs anywhere.other than the starter, what else could it be, its been years since i have done something like this, so i am stumped here. thanks, Bruce
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2009, 6:57 AM
Post #2 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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Hi Bruce,
Bear with me - it's too cold to go out and look at a real one for a 5.7 which this probably is - right?
What TWO are LARGE?? Just saw the price of this sucker and almost fainted to get the pic and by chance have never needed one but there should be one heavy gauge wire that goes directly to the battery. The smaller is the "exciter" wire your key gives 12v to to make it engage and then start. If there's another small one it's for something else unknown to me right now. If another large one - perhaps someone added a ground to a mounting bolt??
The battery cable should go to the smaller cylinder on top (solenoid) which makes the connection to the real motor thru a strap from a bottom stud but you shouldn't have that apart unless you are or have replaced solenoid separately from the starter motor itself. They come together when replaced but you can replace just a solenoid.
Again - that battery cable eylet end at the starter should be as HOT (12v) as the battery all the time. Check with test light if need be carefully poke eyelet and see if the stud also lights to know it makes a connection. It has to be a strong connection or might just give a quick or no click at all when excited as it draws the most amps of anything in a vehicle,
T
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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 7:25 AM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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hey tom,
ok, i have the puple wire on the small terminal and the battery cable hooked to the to. large post, that is all i should need, correct? the solenoid has a wire going to the starter on the bottom large post i have to replace the starter, because while i was messing wit it, taking it on and off to try to figure out what was going on, the plastic broke around the top terminal and the terminal is now loose, so goes it. do you think it could have possibly been in the starter itself to begin with. when i got the vehicle last week, i tried to start it and it cranked over fine and started, but of course it knocked like a banshee. i just don't get it. i have checked al the wires, i have every plug connected, even down by the tranny, thought maybe i had unplugged the nuetral switch or something, but not the case. my only other guess would be the oil safety switch, if that was bad, would that keep it from cranking over, it is the switch on the passenger side, lower block area, just in frront of the starter, it has a wir that runs in the same loom with the purple starter wire, what do you think, it is a used motor. i do still have the old motor here, should i try to change them out.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 4, 2009, 7:54 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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"KNOCKED LIKE A BANSHEE" What the heck was knocking?
If old stud on solenoid broke plastic it could have messed up things and just a solenoid could ( a maybe ) fix that alone.
Basic idea happening with this and all similar "piggy back" type starters:
Power is constant to the top of solenoid - check that. Body of starter must be grounded. Smaller stud with a wire (you said purple - probably that) if that post is given 12v the solenoid is an electro magnet w plunger to make the larger gauge connection of power for the starter AND throw the starter drive (small gear) at the ring gear (aka - flywheel) hence turning the engine. Alone this thing doesn't care if you start or not - its job is just to turn the engine.
You can do a basic test of a starter off the vehicle with jumper cables ground to body of starter, pos to larger stud on top of solenoid and use jumper clip wire to the smaller stud and it should activate - ------- Usually flipping around like a fish, LOL!
Ok: So the smaller wire must light a test light when key is turned to start for the duration of holding the key in "start" position which lets go when you let go of the key as it should anyway.
Again - it's basically two wires and grounded by mounting it to engine. Any other wires are for other things not really related to simply making the starter turn. Even a seized engine would give you a sharp clunk try to start. Still worried about that noise you heard,
T
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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 8:16 AM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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no fear man, the noise was on the old engine, not this one. ok, one more question, if i get the new starter in, put the wires on, and still have the same problem, no crank, then the purple wire must not be getting juice to it,if i check it and don't have juice in the crank position, is there a fuseable link on that wire somewhere that could have went bad?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 4, 2009, 8:44 AM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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Use a test light on that wire first and see if it lights. Guess - you are working alone and can't look and turn key - try a small horn or something on it.
The power comes from ign switch to/thru a neutral safety switch which will disable power to that wire if adjusted correctly if trans is NOT in neutral or park.
With starter in place and hooked up - jumpered 12v to the little stud for the (purple wire guess??) should trip the starter to turn engine.
When in doubt about any wire or wiring don't add voltage at all - remove that wire to test starter if in doubt.
If you don't have jumper clip wires you should have some. Cut splice or whatever with an inline fuse so you have a fused jumper wire for testing stuff. GO EASY WITH JUMPING ANYTHING! IF IN DOUBT DON'T AS THINGS TO COMPUTER ARE NOT HAPPY WITH ADDED POWER OR GROUNDS SO WATCH OUT FOR THAT!
Good luck,
T
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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 10:16 AM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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update, i have put the new starter on, tried to start it again, nothing. i have checked to make sure i have at least 12 volts at the starter, i do. i am really thinking it has to be something simple like that purple wire is broken somewhere, or something that has to do with the nuetral safety switch, i tried to run it through the gears while holding it in the start position, but got nothing there either. where is the nuetral safety switch, i have looked under the car on the side of the tranny, i have everthing hooked up, i don't see any wires unhooked. if it was unplugged or bad, would the vehicle still start in any gear or anything, jsut wondering since i already tried that and it didn't work.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 4, 2009, 10:25 AM
Post #8 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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Well? It looks like that but not certain where they locate it - help guys! By the looks of it, it's inside the car and probably NOT the problem with the history of this as it just had a motor swap - right?
Ok - chase down all the plug ins or follow the wire as far as it might have been damaged. Can you test the starter without this to even get it going for now? Really - you just add + volts to the little connector probably marked with an "S" on the solenoid,
T
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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 11:03 AM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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ok, tested the purple wire for voltage with the key in the crank position, no voltage. what now. i really need to get this vehicle running. if i put voltage to the where the purple wire goes, it starts and runs great, but i just need to get that working properly, thanks.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2009, 12:11 PM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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Ok: Now I'm winging it with just the info from you and what has happened with this Suburban so far.
1. Engine had a knock and was put away for over a year.
2. Whole used engine just installed.
NOW: Won't trigger starter by key - no power detected at the expected proper (purple?) wire at solenoid.
My guess is it probably worked before the swap and something got pulled or wire just gave out even unseen inside its coating during the swap.
Just looked at a 97 Chev C/K truck and a purple wire goes thru firewall at a white plastic block with other wires near brake booster. Chances are that's the same coming from ignition switch directly to the starter's solenoid.
For lack of much better and no diagrams I'd just test that wire by color everywhere you see it for power with key turned to start and find where it stops. You worked underside and underhood mostly so that's how I'd check - meaning from starter back to that wire. See if it even has continuity with a plain ohm/multi meter.
You'll probably find that color wire from ign switch to neutral safety switch on to the solenoid. I'm guessing.
Certainly rule out all fuses for trouble and any marked "ign" should be enabled (show power) when key is in at least "run" position and chase down the line of power till you find the break, serious pinch that may ground it out or something. Best I can suggest from here and now,
T
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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 12:38 PM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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i have done all i can, haven't a clue what is going on, against my better judgement, i am sending it to the shop, man is this going to cost me.
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bruceg
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Feb 4, 2009, 4:18 PM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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hey tom, your not going to believe this, but i may have just found my problem, to your knowledge, does my vehicle's keys have a chip in them. you can't see one, but a buddy of mine just called me and told me that my vehicle, even if you can't see it, has a chip in the key fior the anti-theft system, i have had 3 keys cut at wal-mart, my wife has had the original on her this whole time, so that is why it is not starting, i used the only original key to start it when i first bought it, but since then i have it torn apart, and when i did get ready to start it, i was using a cut key, does this make sense to you.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2009, 4:36 PM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: 99 suburban, won't crank
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It's a maybe and holy crap would that be a hoot if that caused all this grief! It never crossed my mind that a Suburban would use a chip key in 1999 but it surely could.
If that fixes it for now then repost a new thread if you want to defeat that feature OR you may only have one key to the thing OR pay a bloody fortune for spares,
T
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This second shows the key/ignition (oversimplified) as capable of heavier gauge wire directly from it to exciter stud/connection on the solenoid. Just the basic idea for cars, trucks, marine, lawn tractors - all that stuff. Good luck with the fix. It will just be a matter of finding where the continuity stops and fix or replace that part or wire, T