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93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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LudlowLou
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Aug 25, 2012, 7:32 PM
Post #1 of 8
(2339 views)
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93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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My 93 Ciera, started having power window problems, all at one time. i had just started the car and attempted to use driver side when it did not work at all. I was able to use passenger side once, then it failed, but only after it went up....thanks! I played worked on this situation, with my buddy (electrician, but not auto), and a tester. Took off door panels for convenience. We could not figure it out.
I took the car to a local vocational school ( not a H.S.) where I have had excellent experience. They have state of the art everything which of course includes the wiring diagrams for this dino.
Driver side was easy, broken pink wire (hot), at the door jam.
Passenger diagnosis was lift motor. I bought a motor (Dorman) and went back. Nothing.
Now it is the switch.
I go to a local "pick your own parts" salvage yard. Found two nice Ciera crash victims side by side. Windows up, nice interiors, both full power. pulled out the back switches to find they are the same as passenger side. Grabbed three on the spot. Cleaned them up with electronic cleaner, but still nothing.
I marked my original switch with white nail polish. Then I returned to the Voc. school, left the car and went for coffee. When I returned I was told ALL 4 switches were BAD! Same instructor and student!
Put my backyard mechanic hat back on. Back windows work fine from driver side , and individually from back seat. Took out a GOOD back window switch, and moved it to the passenger window. NOTHING!!!!
So it is NOT the switch. My hunch all along, but of course I do not have state of the art shop & equipment, nor an ASE title. Just a smelly hat I keep in the garage.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 26, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #2 of 8
(2313 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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This is messed up. You can test for power and ground and or flow thru a switch without a rocket science degree. A broken wire was found and fixed - that is on the right track so how are the others?
Window motors like most are reversing polarity for which direction they will spin for up or down respectively. Driver's door controls or master control rules first over individual controls.
I'm not understanding replacing the window motor that doesn't work. Did anyone see if power was there to begin with? You can make a good motor work with careful use of jumper wires with some know how not to mess things up,
T
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LudlowLou
User
Aug 26, 2012, 1:07 PM
Post #3 of 8
(2302 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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Sorry Tom, but I do not understand some of your comment, but I certainly appreciate the response.
Although I did not watch the guys at the VOC school, they did test for power. For example, in regards to the broken wire, it was determined immediately that most likely a wire was broken as there was no power at the switch. The hot wire is pink, the instructor grabbed it from within the door, just below the window lift motor and gave it a slight pull. He thought it moved too much, a moment later he revealed that it was broken. They had to work a bit to repair the wire, so I went off and had a coffee. When I returned, the student (actually a young man about 30 yo) told me that the passenger side tests revealed a "weak motor", "it will go up, but not down"??? My immediate though was how do you know it goes up, if you cannot get it down?
Anyways, for $35 bucks and free labor, who am I to argue? I got the new motor and went back. Dropped off the car and had some coffee. 1 1/2 hrs later the motor was changed but the window was still not operating. I was told that it was the switch. Of course being only a lowly backyard mechanic, it took a little while to realize that the passenger side switch is the exact same as the 2 back seat switches, of which I have two good ones.
So here is where I am at; there is a new (Dorman) lift motor on the passenger side, when a dependable switch is used, the window does not work. My though is that although these guys are testing and getting power (now I do not know where ? motor? switch?), they arrive at the assumption that the switch is bad?
My choices are not the best right now. (1) get some strong hints what to chase down myself or (2) take my car back and show them how my back seat switch works fine in the back, but moved to the front....nothing! Shame them away from the "switch" logic since it does not hold water.
Thank you in advance.
LOU
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 26, 2012, 2:54 PM
Post #4 of 8
(2300 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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OK - you are getting a deal except the motor should have been tested if off the car proof that it works or doesn't with or without the switch just using jumper wire.
Understood about the broken wire. Inside that rubber you see when door is open are all the wires and they bend with opening and closing door and get sick of that over some years and break or can be intermittent until completely disconnected.
They know how to figure this out. 12V test light and an ohm (multimeter) just for continuity would do.
The up down thing with one motor is just one wire is power for one direction the other is ground. When that is switched the motor turns the other way. Same motor. If it went up and wont go down it may be just stuck or switch can't reverse polarity for that direction. You can actually tell if motor is getting power by just turning key to run without starting engine, push button while door is open and dome light is on and watch the dang light flicker or dim indicating it is getting power to the motor.
Let them check it again and seems you have the switches. Let the instructor show a student how to test this out which is why they only charge for materials and parts used. Instructor just missed something or didn't give it some time to check out enough,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 26, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #5 of 8
(2290 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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Did they make it clear which switch was the problem? The power for all doors passes through the master switch on the driver's door which could be bad or another broken wire between the switches could also be the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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LudlowLou
User
Aug 26, 2012, 3:10 PM
Post #6 of 8
(2287 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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Will do Tom! Thanks for the knowledge. Ludlow Lou.
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LudlowLou
User
Aug 26, 2012, 6:55 PM
Post #7 of 8
(2280 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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OK, now we are getting somewhere. Thanks Hammer!
Both driver & passenger side (front) failed, almost simultaneously. Pink wire was broken in the DS door jamb, once repaired DS is fine. Passenger not working despite best efforts, to date.
I do recall coming back from the salvage yard, cleaning the switches, and trying them all. At one point I left the car and went to my work bench at which time I noticed a slight "humming" sound coming from the car (engine OFF, ingnition ON). The noise was coming from the drivers side switch area. I removed the switch in the passenger side, and the humming noise stopped? I never did try to recreate this effect?
Now ALL windows, DS and both rear windows work from DS or from back seat. Passenger side front does not work either way.
Based on your comment Hammer, my guess would be that the wire going from the DS to PS is broken in the DS door jamb, as was the other broken wire. Possibly PS door jamb, but less likely since the DS gets the most useage, and wear and tear.
With you guys help this is my best backyarder hunch. What do you think?
LOU
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 26, 2012, 7:02 PM
Post #8 of 8
(2277 views)
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Re: 93 Olds Ciera S - Power Windows
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I think you're on the right track.
Here is the wiring diagram
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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