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2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 12:00 AM
Post #1 of 20
(2810 views)
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2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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The long and short I bought a 2013 Cadillac that was flooded up the the shifter. The car was new and flooded on the dealers lot it has 3 miles on it.
I purchased another 2013 CTS just like it that has a wrecked front and rear to use as a parts car. I wanted the interior/modules/wiring and trunk parts. I wanted to swap them out.
I know some modules have to go through a learning phase before they operate properly. My main issue seems to be the Body Control Module BCM. So I have several questions:
1. What modules will not work without the right VIN number programmed in them?
2. What modules are able to be "flashed" or reprogrammed from one car and VIN to another?
3. What is the way to make the BCM learn to operate properly without programming. I have read there maybe a sequence of turning the ignition off and on?
With neither car running it would be problematic to take the cars to a mechanic to have the computers read just to bring them back home for a parts swap and then back to the shop for programming. What are my options here? I guess I am trying to see how many modules are programmed to the VIN and second which ones can be reused ir relflashed?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 3, 2014, 2:07 AM
Post #2 of 20
(2794 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Nearly all of the modules communicate with each other on a network and will not do that unless programmed to that vehicle, while in the vehicle.
No, there is no shortcut method to programming.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 6:03 AM
Post #3 of 20
(2784 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Are all the modules in that car able to be re programed once programed to another car? For example if I pull all the modules from the parts car and put them in the other water damaged car are they able to be reflashed to the water damage car VIN? If not which ones are unable to be reflashed and which ones are?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 3, 2014, 6:08 AM
Post #4 of 20
(2778 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Some can and some can't. The Airbag module for instance is one time use.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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GC
User
Sep 3, 2014, 6:11 AM
Post #5 of 20
(2777 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Im not familiar with this particular vehicle, but usually, you install the new module in the vehicle, then reprogram.
Are you using the pcm and every module from the wrecked vehicle? Or are you just swapping some modules. Im assuming just some, as this vehicle will have lots of different modules.
This will not be an easy or cheap project.
____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 3, 2014, 6:30 AM
Post #6 of 20
(2775 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Interesting project. Just a suggestion for the time it takes to get flooded car to be kept is to just crank that engine now and then without allowing fuel delivery just to get oil moving inside with known oil only in engine.
I'd keep donor car as long as possible too for surprise dinky things that wouldn't like being submerged - any electric motors, actuators and more on that list.......... the reason they total out a new flooded car at some point of known water level,
T
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 7:10 AM
Post #7 of 20
(2770 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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They show videos on Youtube of people clearing crash codes for reuse on airbag modules. They charge a fee and allow you to send your old one in as a core so it seems airbags are reusable but I am unsure.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 3, 2014, 7:15 AM
Post #8 of 20
(2769 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Great, U-tube it is then.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 7:19 AM
Post #9 of 20
(2767 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Just mentioning it to see if you knew what that is about ...............
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kev2
Veteran
Sep 3, 2014, 11:08 AM
Post #10 of 20
(2752 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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i am curious- What type of tittle did you get?
Flood car are often totaled by insurance as cost prohibitive to repair the dealer passed on this for a reason.
All modules will need programing* - I will look for the GM term for this and post back time permitting.
*the radio, what we called the BCM. SRS,ECM etc etc
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 12:33 PM
Post #11 of 20
(2748 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Both cars have a salvage branded title. I could use the ones out of the wreck car but would have to know which ones would have to be changed. I mean the interior parts are not to hard to change so far. I have not tackled the shifter and console portion yet but from the diagram it does not seem overly troublesome. The wrecked car's transmission and engine module are fine as is the flood cars so if I need to swap them just to make it work that is fine I can but on the wreck car the aluminum electronic module that the brake lines run into was damaged in the wreck so it is unusable and if the airbag module is destroyed I would need that as well. In the wreck car I cannot use the BCM bc I think it is bad. The battery positive grounded during the wreck and is showing symptoms of a bad BCM. If i knew what modules were VIN sensitive it would help make the decision on whether to change all the modules to the wrecked car or not or if that would even work.
(This post was edited by cmb7684 on Sep 3, 2014, 12:44 PM)
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kev2
Veteran
Sep 3, 2014, 1:19 PM
Post #12 of 20
(2743 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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taken from GM service support sight
Do Not Swap Control Modules Do not swap control modules. It's a word of caution that bears repeating as more new GM models are introduced with the Global Architecture electrical system.
The Global Architecture electrical system does not allow control modules to be swapped between vehicles. Swapping control modules will result in a no start condition on both vehicles and will damage both modules due to the new vehicle security code protocol (environment).
Do not swap the following control modules:- Engine Control Module (ECM)
- Radio
- Body Control Module (BCM)
- Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM)
- Sensing and Diagnostic Module (SDM)
- Transmission Control Module (TCM)
- Electronic Climate Control (HVAC)
- Electric Power Steering
- Hybrid Powertrain Control Module
- Vehicle Communication Interface Module
- Instrument Panel Cluster
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 1:53 PM
Post #13 of 20
(2741 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Thanks for pulling that. It contradicts what a guy from the cadillac dealer service department told me but I questioned it bc he was going off the top of his head. He was saying if it is interior related it cannot be re-programed and if it was power train related it could be. Obviously the tech bulletin you posted is more reliable.
Do you by chance know if I use all those modules from the wrecked car in the flood car if that would work? I mean i see it says dont swap modules but if I pull those modules that match from the wrecked car and put them in the other car how would they know hat car they were in? If I can pull all those modules from the wrecked car and place them in the flood car the only ones I would have to buy would be the BCM and the EBCM bc all the other components in the wrecked car are ok if the entire system is able to be moved.
As time permits or if you are aware of where i can find them can you point me to a diagram that shows the location of the modules you have listed?
(This post was edited by cmb7684 on Sep 3, 2014, 1:56 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 3, 2014, 1:59 PM
Post #14 of 20
(2739 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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What part of "Do not swap modules" are you having a problem understanding?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 2:32 PM
Post #15 of 20
(2736 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Hammertime ...as an admin on another site I have to ask you if my questions on a topic i am trying to learn have somehow violated the site rules or offended or attacked you in some way? If so I apologize but if not and you do not like the topic why reply with heckles of my questions or replies?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 3, 2014, 3:19 PM
Post #16 of 20
(2731 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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You have been told multiple times that you cannot swap modules, yet you persist in asking how it can be done.
Question asked and answered, more than once.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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cmb7684
User
Sep 3, 2014, 9:07 PM
Post #17 of 20
(2717 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Hammertime I respectfully disagree. Every reply until Kev2 posted said that some modules could and some could not be reused or re programed or would certainly need to be reprogrammed before reused which is completely different then the tech bulletin posted by kev2 saying they could not be interchanged. And my response to kev2 was not to continue to ask the question already answered if individual modules could be swapped between two different cars as it is obvious that is what the tech bulletin says not to do. In light of the information provided by kev2 my question further wondered if an entire system is swapped from one car to another how would the system know which car it is in and to get thoughts on if swapping the entire system would work? Out of respect for your position in the forum, I digress. I am thankful for all that replied as all insight is helpful.
For those reading this or future use it is unknown if the warning bulletin applies to cars that are not operating on GM's Global Architecture electrical system ( Global A ). To avoid violating site rules I did not place a link to it but there is an interesting read that can be found doing an online search to GM's techlink publication of Feb 2010 on the Global A Architecture electrical system.
It is a detailed read and appears to indicate the issue with swapping modules on the Global Architecture electrical system is the built in theft deterrent where the components listed in Kev2's post all provide certain values programed by the factory to enable the car to start by deactivating the theft deterrent system. Venturing a guess here from some knowledge I have in electronics from another hobby years ago a similar concept is used for security purposes on certain electronic systems where as a security measure it locks you out of the device if it senses tampering if certain values are not provided to the main component when requested from supporting components. I am assuming a similar concept here is used if you were to swap an individual module in the system and it provided the wrong value. As a security measure it it will most likely internally lock to shut down any additional tampering or programming which might indicate why it says in the tech bulletin it may cause damage the component or other parts of the system.
Based on the read and components listed I am curious to see if swapping the entire system over will work since all values will be supplied by the components listed in the tech bulletin. Since I have to take everything apart anyway I think I might give it a try. If it doesn't work then all I lose is a little time and a couple hundred bucks. If I get into the dash area and it isn't water damaged to high up I may reconsider as it will depend on what modules are water damaged and what "complete system" is cheaper to get up and running.
(This post was edited by cmb7684 on Sep 3, 2014, 9:26 PM)
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GC
User
Sep 4, 2014, 6:29 AM
Post #18 of 20
(2700 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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It doesnt seem that you can use every module from the wrecked vehicle, as you said that the brake module is damaged and possibly bcm.
I'll see what I can find as far as Global Architecture module replacement that applies to this situation.
____________________________________________________
Willing to help, willing to learn... Rob
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cmb7684
User
Sep 4, 2014, 7:45 AM
Post #19 of 20
(2698 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Thanks GC!
Yes I may have to buy a EBCM for the car and possibly a BCM but I am guessing at this point that it would be cheaper to buy the EBCM and BCM then all new modules that are water damaged if that is the case.
The other thing I have come across is finding out fir sure that the 2013 CTS are on the Global A platform. I came across something that suggested that Global A wasnt introduced to the CTS until the 2014 model but I am unsure how accurate the information is.
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cmb7684
User
Sep 8, 2014, 12:52 AM
Post #20 of 20
(2653 views)
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Re: 2013 Cadillac CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Module issues
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Ok update with a question.
I have pulled apart a good bit of the flood car interior. From the looks of it The water level from flood did not make it higher than the hump in the floor pan. Under the seats you can see the heavy corrosion on the plugs which is much different when you unplug the connectors that are higher up. I am unsure if the humidity in the car impacted the electrical higher up but they do not seem to have had direct contact with flood water. I will know more over the next day or so when I get time to dig into the dash. It seems it may be more cost effective to replace the modules from the flood car that had contact with water opposed to trying to repair the system from the wrecked car.
Directly under the console they had two sensors side by side and they are the GM RIDE CONTROL YAW-SENSOR GM p/n 13587220 and the Sensing and Diagnostic Module SDM - p/n 13579117. They appeared clear of water when inspecting inside the plugs for corrosion. Obviously I cannot reuse the SDM module from the wrecked car in the flood car because that would be what the GM notice listed earlier in the thread says not to do and it is on the list of modules that showed not be reused once programmed to another car. Can the YAW sensor be interchanged from car to car since it is not on the "do not reuse list of modules" included in the bulletin from GM in this thread?
I have a similar question about what seems to be an airbag seat module of some type. Because the seats were flooded on the flood car I pulled the complete units out of the wrecked car. On the wrecked car the driver bad blew in the steering wheel and both side curtain bags blew. The ones in both of the seats and the passenger had remained in tact in the wrecked car. When flipping the seats over I saw a module on the bottom of the seats ( same in the wrecked car as the flood car) that says GM p/n 20959279 and hella p/n 5DS 933 570-28. When searching the GM part number at GM sites I cannot find any part associated with that module on the bottom of the seat.
The parts diagram shows that there is a flat pad with a module of some type related to the driver and passenger airbag that might be the module under the seat but the parts diagram I found didnt have the part number for the seat pad and module that seemed to have something to do with the driver's side airbags . Since the ones in the flood car are bad bc of being wet I cannot use them. Since I am putting the seats of the wrecked car in the flood car will I need to change those modules under the seat because they were used in the other car (wrecked car) with a different VIN or are they reusable since they are not on the "do not reuse module list" provided by GM? The second question related to this module is even if I can use it again is it a sensor that I can reuse even though some of the car airbags deployed or of that module considered a one time use since the drivers bag deployed the module in the drivers seat has to be replaced. I am thinking it I can use it as its not on the do not reuse list put out by GM but since the drivers bag deployed I cannot reuse the one on the drivers side seat but the one on the passenger side seat should be ok? Please let me know if you are familiar with this issue.
(This post was edited by cmb7684 on Sep 8, 2014, 11:36 AM)
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