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2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Gerty
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Dec 21, 2010, 4:20 PM
Post #1 of 14
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2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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2004 Mitsubishi Lancer OZ 2.0l 5 speed. 112,000 miles.The car died, no fuel. I have checked the 15 amp fuse under the hood -it's good. The 7.5 amp fuse under the dash is also good. I tested both the #1 and #2 fuel pump relays under dash-they are good. The pump runs fine with 12v applied to it. The issue is this: When testing the relay sockets under the dash for voltage, I have 12v into #1 relay with key on- it completes the circuit and sends 12v to #2 relay. However I can not get the second relay to close as I do not have ground at the other side of the coil on the #2 relay. According to the diagram, ground comes from a transistor (violet wire) in the ECM for the second relay. My question is do I have a bad transistor in the ECM or does some other sensor or system need to send a signal to the ECM to allow the ground to be sent back to the #2 fuel pump relay? What else should I check?
I can email the wiring diagram as so it can be viewed when reading this. Thanks in advance.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 21, 2010, 5:52 PM
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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That's how the PCM controls the relay. It's not turning it on for one reason or another and that's what you have to determine. You have to under stand how this works too. Most of then only power a 2 second prime and then shut off until the PCM sees a tach signal.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Sidom
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Dec 21, 2010, 11:56 PM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Wow don't see too many posts like this where someone has basically already done all the work.....
You're gonna give us the diagrams?????????? Man just let me enjoy this moment for a bit.......
You're pretty much already there. You either have a bad relay, open wire or bad PCM.
At the PCM connector C120 pin 8 (pin 20 for an a/t) with the KOEO after 2 seconds you should be seeing battery voltage ( I know you know what open circuit voltage is so I don't have to go into that). If you safely ground that wire and this energizes the fuel pump, barring anything weird you would be looking at a bad PCM. I would still pull codes to be sure but right now can't think of any reason why the PCM wouldn't give you power for 2 seconds (via grounding the relay) with KOEO.
This is would be rare for a Mitsubishi. A common failure would be a bad relay.
You already know the correct pins for the control side, hook it up to your battery and ohm out the load side.
As HT posted, KOEO you will only have power for 2 seconds. Did you test it with a helper? Also tested it while cranking?
Ok I gotta ask......What is your background in auto repair/ electrical?
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 22, 2010, 12:00 AM)
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Gerty
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Dec 23, 2010, 8:22 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Interesting fact regarding the 2 second power up. I will re-test that relay as well as the socket within the 2 second time frame. I did have my neighbor helping me but I don't think I had the probes in place prior to the 2 seconds. I will test the #8 pin on the PCM and let you know the results.
I am simply a back yard mechanic. I started leaning over the fender when I was about 15 or so, I'm 45 now. I have restored a few cars over the years and always complete all of my own repairs. Many engine rebuilds, all sorts of small and large repairs etc. With an issue like this I try to isolate the component and logically determine how it functions. Then I can begin troubleshooting each aspect of its functionality. Alldata is great as the wiring diagrams are indispensable particularly with this issue. Also, my neighbor is an excellent engineer and together we enjoy troubleshooting this kind of thing- until we are (temporarily) stumped! LOL!
I am not sure how to post the diagram on this forum. Am I missing the feature?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 23, 2010, 10:53 AM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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The way most of us post is to use an image hosting side and link the image here.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 23, 2010, 11:35 AM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Re: Images? Always gives me a hard time but many things you can see you can just .... drag (turns blue, arrow over blue, right click on that anywhere then in your post and get the blinking bar where where you want the image, diagram or whatever and right click and the 'paste' option should show. If not it's got an attitude - you may see it and when posted you get the famous red X. If I see it as a link I can usually get your post to show directly via editing your post.
Speak for myself but if I do that I near always don't touch any script and say I messed with it to make it show instantly. Wadda I know about these damn machines? If it works - do it
T
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Gerty
Novice
Dec 23, 2010, 2:10 PM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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http://i1192.photobucket.com/...38/gerty2/relay5.gif
That should be the wiring diagram. Thanks for that tip!
Ok I did skin the violet wire a bit a few inches before the ECM connector under the dash and grounded it. With the key on I have power and the fuel pump running. I assume this is suggesting a bad ECM. The issue is compounded as even with the pump running, albeit with this temporary ground, the car will not start. I am not sure if it is the ECM or as I stated earlier perhaps another sensor that has failed and not allowing the ECM to send that ground. I agree I need to pull codes. I will see if I can get a hold of a scan tool. In the mean time I will study some of the other diagrams for any clues.
Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 23, 2010, 2:19 PM
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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See it that shows directly...........
IT DID! IDK why it works 'cause I can't post stuff from my own puter??
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Dec 23, 2010, 2:23 PM)
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Sidom
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Dec 23, 2010, 7:36 PM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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On this one I would probably backup a bit and check all the basics. With everything hooked up the way it should, check for spark, fuel (you already know about that) and injector pulse. See what all is missing. You really want to pull the codes as well.
I would make sure you are working with a battery that has been load tested as good. Get a test light and check all the fuses in all the fuse boxes.
When testing circuits the best way is to backprobe the connector with a pin, paperclip what ever you have handy. If the wife has one of those T pins, those work real well. Most connectors have rubber weatherpacking to protect the clips, a little electrical cleaner or throttle body spray on them and the pin slides in real easy. If it can't be backprobed the next best thing would be a wire piercer but those do leave a hole. What ever is done to the wire needs to be sealed real tight or there will be problems down the road. Ideally you want to leave no mark but if you have to, then leave as small of mark as possible.
Maybe a little history on the no start would be helpful.
It's just nice to get a post with a specific question rather than "My car doesn't start..............why?"...........lol and then for the OP to offer diagrams......lmao...... Usually it's the other way around....like 99% of the time.....
It's possible to have a bad PCM, you just don't see it that much on Mits, now if this was a Chrysler..........
The other stuff really needs to be checked 1st and if it started looking like a PCM then all the PCM powers and ground would obviously need to be load checked at the PCM connectors....
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Gerty
Novice
Dec 24, 2010, 7:04 AM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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I was thinking the same thing about starting from the top. I intend on going over all the basics just to be sure it is not something obvious. I will check the battery however that is only a few months old.
The starting failure was as follows:
I had filled the tank with fuel and drove about 5 miles to enjoy a libation with a friend at a restaurant. I was inside for 20 mins at best. When I started the car it fired only to stall immediately. That was all she wrote. It was an easy diagnoses at the restaurant as I knew I could not hear the fuel pump. I assumed fuse or relay. I checked them and even swapped the relays -I used the A/C clutch relay for this with obviously the same results. I towed it home and began the aforementioned process.
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Gerty
Novice
Dec 24, 2010, 11:29 AM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Well I did pull the codes this morning. I have two: P0335-Crankshaft sensor circuit malfunction and P0122- Throttle Position sensor circuit low input. This helps. I am thinking the crank sensor is telling the ECM no go with fuel delivery. I will know more when I test each sensor. I just don't have time right now as I have to travel today for the holiday. I may have caused the throttle sensor code as I was checking the connector the other day. I was hearing some noise coming from it when I was checking the MIL relay under the hood.
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Sidom
Veteran
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Dec 24, 2010, 11:41 AM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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I hear ya on the holidays. I'm in & out as well, just getting ready to start my Xmas shopping.....wow getting it done early this year....
One thing I'll toss out real quick, before you get too deep into testing the sensors, verify your ref voltage. If something is pulling down the ref V or it's plain gone, the PCM will toss a couple different codes for different areas........
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 24, 2010, 11:42 AM)
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Gerty
Novice
Dec 28, 2010, 10:04 AM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Well I began the next stage of troubleshooting with the two codes I pulled. As I stated in my prior post I felt I may have caused the TPS code. I conducted all of the steps in troubleshooting the crank sensor. Voltage at various locations including the ECM, continuity etc. All Data has a great flow chart for this type of thing. I was not finding any real issue. I was at the point of simply inspecting various connectors, wiring harness etc. related to the crankshaft circuit. It brought me back to the MIL relay harness connector. I checked all of those areas with no obvious failures. The next steps are to get under the car and pull the lower timing belt cover and get a closer visual on the sensing blade et al. For laughs I tried to start the car as I was done for the day because I was going to get under the car later. Well to my utter surprise it started up immediately! I am unsure of what the issue actually was. If I had to guess I would lean to a connection issue at either the crank sensor or the harness connector at the MIL relay. I will perform a test today with the scan tool while the car is running to see where I am at with some systems.
I am sure a faulty crankshaft sensor signal would have caused the no start condition. I would like to pin point the actual issue if I can. I intend on trying to replicate the failure by closely working on the harness connector at the MIL relay as well as the crankshaft sensor connector. I am pleased the car is running but I never like the mystery fix!
Thanks for all the help.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 29, 2010, 3:18 AM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer no power to fuel pump
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Just a note on the comment "Mystery Fix."
When chasing stuff down do ONE thing at a time and test. Then move on to next be it a connection or item if you do more than one at once you''ll likely not know which was the trouble and may still be lurking. It's better to know the problem area or circuit than not if it re- occurs. Dang intermittent stuff causes hair loss
T
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