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1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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Nikkig
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Mar 13, 2010, 6:39 PM
Post #1 of 14
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1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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1998- ford explorer-4.0 V6 soch engine-167,000m
It won't start I have several cert. mechanics at my disposal who love me and work for free they don't know why it wont start either. here is a list of everything tested.....
Fuel pressure-30 PSI pressure is supposed to be 28-32 according to online forums shop key say's 30-45
Compression test-120 shop key and online forums say 100-125
spark plugs never used gapped at .050 her previouse plugs where gapped at .045 she ran fine but online manuel states .054 gap
vacuum valve's don't leak
Battery tested works great
fuel lines cleaned
fuel filter replaced for good measure
we did a spark test we have spark
fueses checked those are fine
relay's also fine
hooked her up to a computer according to that she should be running and NOTHING IS WRONG.The computer she was hooked to was the new Matco pegusus
injectors ohms are great
spark plugs are wet
we also opened her up to more air still no start
no idiom lights are on
checked her timing and she is still TDC
MAF sensor is fine
EGR valve is fine
oil pump works
oil changed 12 hours prior
seals checked no leaks of fluids
head gasket fine
battery terminals changed
ground is a little loose but not much.
What happened:My truck started to tick found out the plastic keeper was stuck that was 7 mo ago....My truck started to miss found out the vacuum hoses where bad we replaced those last week.Problem with this is I needed a t-connections and there where none to be found so we improvised with a brass t-connection from lowe's she is no longer losing air but the hoses where made longer because the t-connection wouldn't fit at the top of the engine due to lack of flex.
Our mechanic said- Use straight 50 weight oil to help quell the ticking save the chain up until then we had been using 40/20 the reccomended for my truck is 30/20 we did what he said changed the oil to 50/20 (the parts store was out of 50 straight) He changed the oil put in a new filter and he did this with the truck warm so he could drain it all out.I went to work the truck ran fine I came home again she ran fine My husband took my daughter to the school bus stop 16 hours later turned the truck off to wait and now she will crank but not start.For some reason we had an extra almost quart of oil when we started searching for the problem we have no idea where it came from. We changed the filter for sure and we only put her 5 quarts in like always. We drained it....still no start so we drained her all the way and replaced the oil filter and put 40/20 back in.Today we took the top part of the engine apart found nothing wrong cleaned her up put her back together tried to start her she stalled as soon as she kicked over.My truck has never had an issue with starting EVER we are thinking crank or cam sensor maybe could it be it has oil on it? could it go bad with no warning? could it be something else?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 13, 2010, 7:18 PM
Post #2 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Nikkig
Novice
Mar 13, 2010, 11:22 PM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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whats a complete compression test?
I have everything you have mentioned spark fuel compression still no start did I mention my mechanics love me and have expensive things to test for this stuff? We have used all of it. I have lost faith in car computers however realizing that without start the code can not be sent and without the problem occuring when tested it may not get a code as well.Tonight after posting here we also checked the camshaft sensor it was covered with oil we wiped it off tried again still no start is there a way to clean it or did the oil ruin it?tomorrow we also plan to check the knock sensor and the PCV valve.This truck has to work i love it and i don't want a different one it has to be this one.I don't want to replace sensors one by one till i get lucky either I want to go obviouse to  WOW i wish it had been the cheaper one. Because i have fuel compression spark it has to be a sensor correct? also we have noticed now that when we try to start we have no start but a rich fuel smell not sure why any thoughts maybe it's a clue.
I would be ever so grateful for some insight i am miserable without my truck and everyday this drags on with no clues or ansewers my moral goes down. I just bought a new engine and I am waiting for it to come in but..... I know my engine is not the issue per se' and this problem will continue even with the new engine.
(This post was edited by Nikkig on Mar 13, 2010, 11:23 PM)
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re-tired
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Mar 14, 2010, 12:35 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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If you follow the steps that Ht has laid out ,no assuming ,no skipping around ,you will find SOMETHING missing or out of specs . The thing that rings my bell is the appparent gas in oil . (the only way I know of to gain a qt). Possible stuck open injector(s),driver(s) shorted to ground . Try unplugging the injector harness and cranking over if it tries to run. Try running for a few sec on starting spray.
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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Nikkig
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Mar 14, 2010, 12:47 AM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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I have neither assumed or skipped I have done it all and I get no start. I havent tried the starter spray however.
My plugs are wet with fuel when I try to start it I am considering having the husband take the coil pack to be tested it has the feel of an electrical issue for some reason. I have been researching for 5 days pulling apart cleaning testing replacing etc. I have discovered my knock sensor will not cause a no start issue (research) I can't find anything about my PCVV not causing a no start there was no gas with the oil (no milky color) it has a rich fuel smell which I noticed tonight however im wondering if the air/fuel ratio is off, what could cause that? Could that cause the no start problem it seems like the wrong ration could infact cause the issue by dousing the plugs right?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 14, 2010, 6:14 AM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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OK, I've seen nothing where you tested injector pulse.
Don't say you've done all that when you have just jumped around with no system.
You say that plugs are fouled although you have spark. That can only mean bad compression, bad gas, or too much gas. All these things show up in those tests.
If you have 5 mechanics that can't figure out why this car won't start, then you need to look for a different shop because there is nothing here that should prevent a competent tech from determining the cause.
As I said in the first post, if you strictly follow that testing, you will isolate the reason it doesn't run.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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re-tired
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Mar 14, 2010, 6:48 AM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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Nikkig -easy ,easy . I was not making acccusations . I was just expressing the fact that you are missing something in your diagnosis, it does not mean your inncompetent . As for the point I made . You have stated you have gained oil volume and there is a fuel smell. Excessive fuel delivery will put gas into a crankcase . Gas in the oil will NOT cause a milky condition , water in oil does that .Two most common way's of getting gas into the crankcase is stuck open injectors and a ruptured pressure regulator. Either check all injectors for proper operation and the harness . Or at least disconnect the harness to eleminate the injectors and give the eng a chance to purge the excessive fuel and try to start .You have asked for our help , opinions . We are here to provide it . Please take some of it under consideration.
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
(This post was edited by re-tired on Mar 14, 2010, 7:32 AM)
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Nikkig
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Mar 14, 2010, 10:34 AM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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HT your right I should run very fast and very far I am not sure if they checked pulse but we checked ohms and those where correct. and we did get a clogg from the fuel rail yesterday as well thats when the plugs where finally wet because before on friday we didn't have spark. also the 5 mechanics are all from diffrent locations my husband does computer repair so we make friends all over plus a few where backyard mechanics and they had better ideas than the cert ones.
We have discoverd something interesting the oil pressure sensor was caked in oil and go figure he cleaned it and she kicked over and started but shut off a few seconds later. My husband is thinking that it is reading low pressure and might be faulty which the computer in the truck is saying you don't have enough oil pressure and not letteing her start.
Is this an accurate theory?
I appreciate all your help thus far sorry if I got snippy and offensive.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 14, 2010, 10:39 AM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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If you insist on paving your own course, then you will do that alone. It really doesn't matter if you ohm'd the injectors because that doesn't tell you if they are receiving the right signal or not.
I have given you the basic process and until you have followed that to the letter and respond to every one of those tests, I am out of this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Nikkig
Novice
Mar 14, 2010, 11:00 AM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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So going on visuals apperantly wasnt enough we smelled the oil it smells like gas???
lovely this would cause a no start correct? by why the the compressin test come back normal so to speak?
We are also still intending to get the coil pack tested today at advanced and we are going back to basics again and starting over fuel pressure spark correct? all three and she should fire *starts over*
Wiki has become my best friend through all this :
wiki says oil/fuel mixing could mean faulty injectors how do I test injectors without a pulse thing? Is that possible
The mechanic said ohms so I figured that was enough according to HT it isn't so what exactly do I need to do with them?
(This post was edited by Nikkig on Mar 14, 2010, 11:05 AM)
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re-tired
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Mar 14, 2010, 12:34 PM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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I stated how the gas in oil could have happened and could lead into a no start . But no mention was made in ref to my post . I'm done .
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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Nikkig
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Mar 14, 2010, 1:02 PM
Post #13 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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im sorry I read your post but unlike other message boards I can not see what I am replying to in the message window so it is hard to ref. everything when it comes to a reply.
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re-tired
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Mar 14, 2010, 1:42 PM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: 1998 ford explorer woe's 5 mechanics no ansewers
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Thats ok . I should have been a little more to the point . The forum appreciates your using us . however i really am at a loss for futher ideas . If you tried my idea's without results I dont have a clue what to try next . maybe the other techs can step in. Best of luck.
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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