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1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 24, 2009, 7:36 PM
Post #1 of 15
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1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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I have a 1989 f150 2wd inline 6. The truck seems to have some sort of system short. At first everything seemed fine, but then the starter and solenoid/relay switch went out. Since then it seems as if there is some sort of short or resistance in the electrical system. I would drive, lights on, radio blaring, heater on, and everything would be fine. The battery gauge would read almost exactly the middle of the good zone, with a slight lean towards high. Suddenly, and with no perceivable reason, everything would dim. Lights dim, radio loses reception strength, the battery light would come on, and the batttery gauge would say 8 volts. Oddly, it is a rather steady 8 too. No flicker, or bounce, or spikes or anything. 8 also happens to be the first red line on the battery gauge. Then as if nothing ever happened, everything goes back to normal.
I tried everything I could think of to create it at will, but it seems to have a mind of it's own.
I have tried:
Going over bumps
Going faster/slower(maybe the wind was wiggling a loose connector)
Wet vs. dry weather
Cold vs. hot weather
Still I got nothing. But the engine ran so I let it be. It kept getting more and more often and longer priods of "half power" and it also seemed to be getting lower. One time I was driving from Houston to Dallas(In Texas) and it was happening throughout the trip. One of the episodes, about 3/4 of the way there, was so bad the car almost died. I had to use the gas pedal to keep it on. Flooring it to keep the engine from sputtering to a stop. I noticed that it was a electrical problem that has an added mechanical effect. During that episode, my power steering and braking got a whole lot stiffer due to the power loss and it's effect on the engine. From then on I payed attention to these two as well, and noticed in the usual "half power" mode, they get a bit stiffer as well. Everything goes back to perfect and smooth when power returns. The car only has 73,000 miles on it. (Yes I checked. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's true. I got it from a community college. They kept up with it flawlessly and it never even left the campus.)
Now, it doesn't even have the power to start, even though I have just changed out the engine, and switched from efi to a 500cfm edelbrock performer series carb.(My brother wrecked it and blew the engine, I did all the work myself, but I am the farthest thing from a mechanic.) It stared and ran succesfully but now it seems to be stuck in low power mode. It turns over freely, but not fast enough to start. It seems a bit young for broken major parts. But I still checked these anyay...
Battery: Checks great.
Starter solenoid: checks great.
Starter: checks great.
Ignition coil: Checks great.
Alternator: won't stop a car from starting, though it may or may not be an issue later on.
Battery cables: Check great, except the hot wire to the starter. It got a little burned by the exhaust manifold, but this was after I started having these issues.
Whatever it is, it seems to affect the whole system, not any one part. The only place I know that EVERYTHING comes together is at the battery, but I had it tested at autozone, and "tested" it on my own, and it passed with flying colors.
If you even think you thought you had an idea of what it could be, tell me everything about every idea you've got and I'll try it. I'm as desperate (and stumped) as they come!
-Corey
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 25, 2009, 4:17 AM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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If the battery guage is dropping to 8 volts I would suspect a faulty charging system. Most likely the voltage regulator is fading. Have the charging system checked. If the alternator is full-field and putting out its max amperage then the regulator is failing to properly sense and control the alternator output. Very common on this vehicle.
Steve
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 26, 2009, 1:26 PM
Post #3 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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I have a free standing battery charger as well. It charges the battery 100%(~12.9-13.2). My problem hasn't gotten so far as checking alternators because I have a definite charge on that battery, and I can't even start the car. Before I even turn the key to the start position(while in run) to attempt starting the car, I can look at the battery gauge and it says it's only getting half power. As far as I know, the car would have to be running to blame the alternator for this. This won't even let the car start.
The hot wire to the starter that got burnt, still ran the truck smoothly and this problem was long before the burnt cable came up. I think. It was a while ago though so I can't be too sure. But now that you mention it, it could've came first. The manifold had to be hot to burn which means the car was already running. But if the time in between shuting it off and turning back on again was short enough that could've done it. Do you know of anything that does this to a car when it breaks? It would have to be something that is operating when the car isn't on. It has to be constant. And my guess would put it on a very important wire or fuse somewhere. I strongly don't believe it to be a faulty battery gauge, because EVERYTHING else in the car is consistent with the reading, suggesting it to be a much deeper problem.
I'm running out of ideas, and it keeps beating the junk out of me.
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Sidom
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/ Moderator
Dec 26, 2009, 2:13 PM
Post #4 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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I'm just going to toss out a quick suggestion here. Take both cables off & clean the battery terminals & cables real well. Then take the cables off where they bolt to the block,body & electrical connections and clean those areas good all ends.... It's possible you have some corrosion or just a bad connection giving you a voltage drop. Even though that wire you mention was after the fact, if it's not in good shape it does need to be fixed just so we know it's not contributing to the original problem....
It's a long post and if you've already done this or it's been suggested I apologize, wouldn't be the 1st time I missed something....
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 26, 2009, 2:14 PM)
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 26, 2009, 6:33 PM
Post #5 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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My next question would be what is the age and condition of the battery? It is possible the battery has a short inside the cells and is not holding a sufficient charge. When a voltmeter is put across the terminals, the battery can read 12.6 volts. This is a static charge. What is needed is the battery's ability to provide cranking amps. If after you perform Sidom's tests, and if the cables and connections test ok, you should charge the battery, have it load tested, then get the charging system tested. Let's confirm this system first before we move on.
Steve
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 26, 2009, 11:12 PM
Post #6 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Sorry about taking so long to respond, I just got off of work. I'll be taking the battery and alternator to be tested first thing tomorrow, and while I'm there I'll pick up some test equipment. I do have this book that tells me a few good things to pick up, I was wondering what you thought about them...
Jumper wires(for open circuits)
Test light vs. test buzzer
Continuity tester
Short finder
Analog vs. digital multimeters
If there is anything else I should get just let me know...
I'll be changing the battery cables as well. The one to the starter should be pie, the one to the computer may be a little tricky though. I should be through at around lunch unless the ecu wire takes a bit longer. But it shouldn't be too bad. I'll run a few tests, and write what I find. The battery is a duralast gold unit, bought march, 2007. And don't worry too much about repeating anything, it may be something that needs checking. I beleive I have cleaned connections before, but I will do it now either way. It definitely won't hurt.
Thank you so much for your help! I can't thank y'all enough!
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Dec 27, 2009, 12:50 AM
Post #7 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Yea sometimes it doesn't hurt to double check some stuff before you move on.
Between all the stuff you listed, with a good DVOM (digital meter) & a test light you can pretty much do all the tests you listed...... Jumpers are always good to double check grounds. As far as power circuits go, a fused jumper is the best option. If you do this type of work with any kind of regularity, a power probe III would be a good option. One tool that would do all those test you listed for about $100.
Go to youtube and search "power probe 3" for a demo, nice little tool......
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 27, 2009, 12:52 AM)
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 27, 2009, 7:07 PM
Post #8 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Ok. Today took forever. I gotta find a faster way to get around than a bicycle. I guess that's why I'm here. But anyway, here it goes...
Today I changed the battery cables and solenoid. I also took the alternator and battery in for testing. They load tested the battery as well. Both passed with flying colors (though I gotta say I didn't expect them to be that good, still, I ain't complaining)
Cable connections are good. Double checked, and tight.
Picked up a digital volt meter and I'll be runing tests in the morning. I got everything hooked up and got some additional symptoms. When I turned the key the engine turned a little stronger and the battery said it had a bit more of a charge. But when I tried to turn the car off it wouldn't stop trying to start. Even after I removed the key, the engine kept turning over until I disconnected the negative battery terminal. This happened twice in a row, and I didn't try it any more after that, incase it might break. Both times when I disconnected the negative terminal, it gave of a sizable spark and a "pop" noise(compared to the usual nothing and nothing)
any thoughts?
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Sidom
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Dec 27, 2009, 7:28 PM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Sounds like you may have a problem with the starter solenoid. Disconnect the cable off the solenoid going to the starter and then hook the battery backup. With your volt meter on the 20v scale put the ground lead on the battery neg & the pos lead to the terminal that you took the cable off and see what reading you have, should be 0v if you are getting 12v. Take the small wire off the solenoid and recheck, if you still have 12v, then you have a defective solenoid. If you now have 0v, check for power on the small wire. It should read 0v, if you are getting any kind of voltage reading you may have a bad ign switch. You should only have 12v on the small wire when the key is in the start position.
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 27, 2009, 9:05 PM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Looks like my meter is missing the negative wire. This certainly doesn't go to help autozone's image. I'll try swapping it out, but that's sad.
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Sidom
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Dec 27, 2009, 9:14 PM
Post #11 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Double check the meter.........I've seen some less expensive ones where the negative/ground was a brass pointer that was part the meter that you would just put on a good ground & then problem the wire/circuit you want to with the pos lead...
(This post was edited by Sidom on Dec 27, 2009, 9:14 PM)
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 27, 2009, 11:07 PM
Post #12 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Just checked the meter. The package with the wire is actually already open(I didn't open it). The case says there are (should be) two wires and the meter seems to be consistent with that. Looks like I've been had.
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straightsixer88
Novice
Dec 29, 2009, 7:56 AM
Post #13 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Well I took the other solenoid back in and just stuck with my old one. Two things I noticed immediately:
1. "Pop" noise and spark are gone(suggesting my solenoid is fine).
2. In my first post I mentioned a trip to dallas where the problem was particularly prominent. I just realized this issue probably started then. I was driving and then when everything was about to give out on me, I stopped the truck and looked under the hood(This was shortly after I changed the starter, solenoid, battery, and cables) thinking I could fix it. Turned out to be that I put in the starter power cable(aka. switch to starter cable) the wrong way and it was touching the exhaust manifold. I needn't try to explain the heat coming from that thing especially after such a long trip, and, as expected, it burned straight through the cable coating and into the cable itself. I think this very well may have been when all my problems started. I remember simply moving the wire away and giving it time to cool, then the truck started right up, and I never thought of it again.
I changed out all my cables the other day, including the burnt one. Now my whole system seems to be coming back together. Full power and everything. Except it's just slightly less than what I need at the starter, but I think that may have to do with the fact that I went back to oem wire gage on the switch-to-starter wire, but it used to be one size bigger. The ground wire, and the battery-to-switch wire, are both still one size thicker, I just couldn't find a 2 gage switch-to-starter cable.
So while it is starting to seem like it's getting better, dare I say fixed even, still it's not quite yet enough to start the engine. I just don't seem to have enough at the starter yet, maybe due to the thinner wire, maybe due to a starter that's just "had it"...
Do you think it's safe to say the burnt cable is linked to this in some way too? And either way, where do I go from here?
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steve01832
Veteran
Jan 2, 2010, 7:55 AM
Post #14 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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Straightsixer, you will need a helper for this. Have someone in the driver's seat to hold the key in crank for the following tests:
1) Put the meter's red probe on battery positive terminal, black on negative terminal. Turn meter to 20 volt DC scale. Have helper hold key in crank. If voltage is less than 9 volts, charge battery. If more than 9 volts, proceed to next step.
2) With meter still on 20 volt DC scale, Put red probe on batt. positive terminal. Put black probe on starter solenoid battery terminal. (We are testing the positive battery cable and connections for voltage drop). Put key in crank. If voltage on meter shows zero, circuit is OK. If voltage on meter shows more than 1 volt, you will need to move probes from terminal lugs to terminals on cables and repeat the tests. Basically, we are working from the ends of the cable inward to find the cause of the high resistance. Do this on both the positive and negative circuits.
3) Put red probe of meter on battery negative terminal and black probe on starter motor body. Turn key to crank. If meter shows 0 volts, ground circuit is ok. If meter shows over 1 volt, backtrack probes until you get 0 volts reading. The last point to point test shows the problem part of the circuit.
Sorry, I am not good at explaining the procedures. Hope this makes sense.
Steve
(This post was edited by steve01832 on Jan 3, 2010, 3:39 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 6, 2010, 5:10 PM
Post #15 of 15
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Re: 1989 F150 electrical problem/turns over slowly but won't start.
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I should stay out of this as it's a mile long already.
Just notes from a fast read: Battery cables aren't what they used to be. Fine stranded read copper is best. 1 gauge so much the better.
* tight connections mean little if not getting the amps thru. Low amps to starter can wicked hurt it and shine up the brushes confusing the situation. You can pinch the single wire (small) to solenoid for a better grip. Use copious amounts of PB/WD-40 on the cables at both ends.
My four cents (inflation) and hope I didn't mess up by missing something already mentioned,
T
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