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No brake pedal


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Fastback
Novice

Apr 22, 2019, 10:35 AM

Post #1 of 15 (306 views)
No brake pedal Sign In

 
1966 289 ford mustang fastback 2+2. I replaced front drums to disc ,good install.Problem when car is running I have no brake pedal .I do have correct vacume to booster from manifold and all brake lines bled correctly.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 22, 2019, 1:32 PM

Post #2 of 15 (293 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

OK: Know there pretty well off the top of my head. '66 if OE was a single master cylinder you HAVE to have changed that and proportioning valve I think next model year at least you had to push a rubber button on that proportioning valve or it would bleed properly! They make so much aftermarket I can't guess what's close to OE for the next year did do discs but only if you got a monster engine was 4 piston calipers only were a horror in retrospect when these weren't even old yet!


Vacuum boosters have always had to get vacuum right under carbs spike to the best vacuum intake manifold can make which is when engine is acting to slow car down or just idle should be about 18ish Hg on a 289 unless high compression would be a bit higher.


Doesn't totally matter it stays in booster via a check valve need to check now. Find the hose make sure it's tight under carb and tight to that valve. Some risk here if old pull the valve out it should go "whoosh" letting vacuum out. Don't do that unless you have a new grommet in hand!


Other is shut it down, engine off you should feel power assist still 5 minutes or days after engine ran last. If hard right away let's find out where it leaks air into vacuum.


Other test is just hold brake (engine off) or pump it till vacuum exhausted pedal would go lousy or worse than what you have if vacuum related at all. Now hold pedal still and start engine up feel the pedal drop the assist is back.


Just for info that hose that feeds a booster should be all by itself nothing else but that. It also has to be marked hose for PCV and Vacuum either or the type that just doesn't collapse under vacuum but some can if real oily too long anywhere along the short route it takes,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 23, 2019, 5:33 PM

Post #3 of 15 (278 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

I hope you replaced more than just the brake hardware at the wheels.

Disc vs drum, totally different hydraulic system.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Fastback
Novice

Apr 26, 2019, 9:53 AM

Post #4 of 15 (253 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

Yes I replaced the whole front brake system from new rotors calipers and duel bowl master cylinder with booster .I took vacume off of manifold by it self and have 17 psi. Porportioning valve is correct also. Jowever since i posted this I found this engine is a 351 Cleveland not a 289. Could that effect the psi needed?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 26, 2019, 9:57 AM

Post #5 of 15 (247 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

No, that doesn't change anything in the hydraulic system.

Look at your calipers and see if the bleeder valve is above or below the incoming line fitting.

Let us know what you find.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 26, 2019, 9:58 AM)


Fastback
Novice

Apr 27, 2019, 6:58 AM

Post #6 of 15 (235 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

The bleeder fitting is above the line coming into caliper as tgey are 4 piston calipers. However I found another problem .No fluid is passing throuh a splice I had to make going to rear drums .Have to fix that. Will let you know after that repair is completed an brakes bled again .Thanks T.


Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 27, 2019, 7:20 AM

Post #7 of 15 (231 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

? Splice ? Just what type of splice did you or someone make up? Generally no or wouldn't call it that. You can and do use line, make a flare and unions (brass) are a legal way to put piece of line in or changes that makes that handy. If you used just compression fittings like the outside type stuff get those out for real line. Pressure is on the inside of a line the outside is the strength holding it allow for bending.


No copper anything for lines if super fussy hunt down stainless - never did but it exists,


T



Fastback
Novice

Apr 27, 2019, 2:01 PM

Post #8 of 15 (224 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

Bleeder valves are above incoming brake lines


(This post was edited by Fastback on Apr 27, 2019, 2:05 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 27, 2019, 2:04 PM

Post #9 of 15 (217 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In


Quote
The bleeder fitting is above the line coming into caliper as tgey are 4 piston calipers.


OK, if you are sure about that. The calipers can be installed on the wrong side of the car and they will bolt up fine but you will never get them bled.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Fastback
Novice

Apr 27, 2019, 2:19 PM

Post #10 of 15 (206 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

The calipers are installed correctly you cant switch them .The new mounting bracket that came them can only go one way .Also the front brakes bled fine. If there was a way to up load a pic ?. Question is there an adjustment on the proportion valve.I'm not getting any fluid through valve. Fluid is going from M/C to P/V but not on outlet side. Very stumped.


Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 27, 2019, 2:22 PM

Post #11 of 15 (206 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

They should be. If these 4 piston calipers are real OE type that FORD made were also on T-Birds, 64-66 at least had many. Those come apart as I recall with tiny rubber "O" ring are fussy to bleed just maybe now did they use a small brake line to connect inner two to outer two or might have been another (had zillions worked on them before they were real old.
If so you may have whack them (any that helps) get bubbles like a soft drink to surface to bleed out. Other is carefully block pistons with wood and bleed turning it in hand!
I do recall if depressing pistons back you have to be clamping the others or they can pop out really isn't so good to allow that!
Of course don't let it hang on flex hose.
Back to that splice? What or how is that done? If no fluid passes or if wrong materials use maybe it bulges out rather than put pressure to calipers and wheel cylinders if lost at one despite the two separate reservoirs, the idea was you never lose all brakes but almost do anyway.
The worst issue with non floating calipers is there's not great tolerance for any deviation in the rotor or bearings have to be just right or any wobble pushes back pistons you either feel it horribly or any even normal warpage if heat uneven you feel it.
Of all common vehicles disc brakes were first on Corvette and Ford did put them on all 64 up T-Birds, Lincolns then just the higher HP Mustang and in 67 the Cougar rare to find big blocks early anyway.


There were lots of rare editions so can't name them all but know that crap first hand and drove them mega miles get to know them better than just doing them and test drives,


T



Hammer Time
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Apr 27, 2019, 2:41 PM

Post #12 of 15 (200 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In


Quote
The calipers are installed correctly you cant switch them


Maybe not in your case because they are complete with brackets but the calipers themselves can be switched on the brackets. I've see it done a lot.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Fastback
Novice

May 6, 2019, 1:31 PM

Post #13 of 15 (144 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

If I switch the calipers I would have to switch the bracket that slides on first to the spindle. According to the instructions that came with kit it specifically shows which direction they need to go in.Are you saying try it and see.? I really don't see why I cant try it. Also by taking the brake switch out of proportion valve and reinstalling could that be and issue ?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 6, 2019, 1:37 PM

Post #14 of 15 (140 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

No,no, no........... I was merely pointing out how it could have been done accidently but if you never removed the brackets from the caliper, we can rule that out. If the bleeder is higher than the line in, you are fine.

I have to believe it is a compatibility issue with parts. Something on there is not compatible with the disc brakes. The master is the prime suspect.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 6, 2019, 1:38 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 6, 2019, 4:37 PM

Post #15 of 15 (131 views)
Re: No brake pedal Sign In

Still troubles with this? Hard to know just what kit you have that is supposed to fit and work like it was original. You've switched YEARS when brake laws change too I thought I mentioned that.
Master is suspect to me now too if not more so far seems we are at zero pedal - right?
Fine, look and see if the damn pushrod from brake pedal is or isn't adjustable? I do forget right now some where or most were. Either that or a different push rod all the way from now booster (discs always had boosted brakes) OE they didn't behave well IMO drove many of that body the same idea in Mercury Cougar in 1967 came out is the same car really.


Owned and they were not old '65 + 2 '66 T-Birds nothing but 4 piston power discs brakes used on those new, no choices. It's unfair they weren't that old and could get anything almost free from wrecked ones.


Let's stick with Mustang which is the Falcon's first floor pan is the frame for these if a monster powered V8 did bolster the torque boxes so the thing didn't bend in half from so much insane power really wasn't ready for that IMO saw door gaps chip body flexed so much.
Back to the proportioning valve? Did the right one come with this kit? It HAD TO HAVE ONE in model year 1967 said you couldn't bleed those OE without pushing a button! Is it there or what?
I'll let OP just search out how those work, If proper pressure to one side coming in wrong it blocks off the other side is off center and has to be or only fronts or rears will bleed. Cars without that button you balanced by just loosening a front or rear line till it centered as a guess to center those but worked also.
Right now what makes the brake lights work? Just asking I thing it was pressure at the single master for '66 also sealed brake fluid! '67 up was at that proportioning valve should have a wire is just a warning light not for brakes lights that moved to the brake pedal for decades same one about all real Ford made vehicles goes where brake pedal pivots also changed already said just repeating myself - sorry.


Want to see this working kit should have thought of everything perhaps my fault so I apologize I clearly recall the changes made to cars in 1967 sold to the US and probably Canada at least.
The one line for now is see if master or a line off of it spits fluid when loosened just enough with pedal pushed hold it still till tightened back up the answer to that is info to me anyway,


Tom







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