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Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008


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worand
Novice

May 24, 2017, 12:29 PM

Post #1 of 17 (737 views)
Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

OK I have previously replaced both pads rotors and parking brake on this vehicle with no issues front and rear.
This issue started a while after the rear pads and rotors were replaced. One set of pads were completely worn while the other side was fine. On dismantling I checked the guide pins which were fine but the piston would not retract into the caliper even with a G-clamp so I diagnosed a stuck piston. I cleaned up the caliper and replaced the piston with a new one using new seals and the red rubber grease which came with the seals.
Then the other side (still on the rear) started to get VERY hot and smell so I installed a new piston in this caliper too (obviously) bleeding the brakes each time. Guide pins on this side moved easily by hand.
This has not fixed the overheating brakes and not only that the first repaired side is overheating now as well.
Not sure where to turn as the piston (single one on this car) and the guide pins both move easily but the brakes are obviously binding since they're getting incredibly hot. Enough so that we can't use the car till it's fixed.
Any ideas what it might be or even how to diagnose it would be much appreciated. Thanks

(This post was edited by worand on May 24, 2017, 12:40 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 24, 2017, 12:35 PM

Post #2 of 17 (735 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

First thing is slapping a new piston into a corroded up caliper is not a resolution. You should be replacing the whole caliper and you should be doing it on both sides.

Have you jacked up the car and checked to see if the brakes are dragging after the car is stopped?

Have you checked the master for any contamination?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



worand
Novice

May 24, 2017, 12:48 PM

Post #3 of 17 (729 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Thanks Hammer time. I replaced both sides within one 2 mile drive of the car at least. Yes I checked wheel rotation after each job (wheel would not rotate before first job but I admit I didn't check before doing the second as I assumed the same thing was happening which it seems was likely not the case) and I'll do so again after they cool down. No contamination in the master. I hear what you're saying about the calipers and I'll likely replace those now anyway but I'm not convinced they are the issue. They're nice and clean in the bore and there was very little rust on the first piston and what there was was forward of the seal groove.


Hammer Time
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May 24, 2017, 12:52 PM

Post #4 of 17 (727 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

I didn't say check it after the job. You need to check it at the moment the problem is present (after a drive when they are overheated).

If you do find it dragging, open the bleeder and see if that releases it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 24, 2017, 12:52 PM)


worand
Novice

May 24, 2017, 12:55 PM

Post #5 of 17 (721 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Ah, OK misunderstood. I'll drive it a little around the block away from traffic and do that and report back. can't do it now as off to work (not in that car) Thanks for the advice so far


Tom Greenleaf
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May 25, 2017, 4:34 AM

Post #6 of 17 (703 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

May I suggest NOT rebuilding your own calipers? You are not likely to have proper tools and any flaw in piston's bore isn't acceptable.


Flex hose could be trapping pressure I think Hammer was suggesting the check for that. Old parts burned from dragging were replaced and you seem to have said burned them now NEW again may have wrecked pads and rotors if new pads at least are NOT ready for maximum heat right away and can change friction amount for the rest of their time or already be cracked or glazed - think about starting all over again. Stinks but not being able to stop by surprise is far worse of course,


T



worand
Novice

May 29, 2017, 4:10 AM

Post #7 of 17 (667 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Thanks Tom, dragging both hot and cold. Have ordered 2 new calipers with pistons and pads. Rotors were never blue and are pretty new.
When removing the calipers to do the job I clamped the hoses with hose clamps. If I did this too tight could it cause what you're talking about? (pressure trapped in hose). They bled fine after the job but I guess that's no guarantee. New flex hoses are pretty cheap. I'll have to bleed all 4 brakes and replace the whole fluid system after fitting those I guess. Do you know how much fluid that takes?


(This post was edited by worand on May 29, 2017, 4:21 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
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May 29, 2017, 6:16 AM

Post #8 of 17 (661 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

A point for even professionals to disagree on is hoses. I say don't even pinch them as that's "hydraulic" hose you risk ruining it causing them to go bad. The outside looks like plain rubber the inside is very strong but doesn't like even kinking once or worse some folks hang calipers by them. Remember fronts have to move up/down and tolerate steering so they take more of a beating than others already.


Fluid amount: Not a set amount you bleed in order by specific vehicle also in consideration of ABS till all air is out. Never re-use brake fluid and careful what it gets on. Have so say dispose of properly but know it will wash away with plain water but careful can stain or wreck things and not plant friendly so be smart about it.


Here I go again - I catch it and absorb it with cheapest cat litter in cans for disposal AYOR it could eat thru some plastics,


T



worand
Novice

May 31, 2017, 5:30 AM

Post #9 of 17 (643 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Tom. It's the rear so not quite as much of an issue but I have ordered two new hoses too. I guess I just catch all the fluid when I disconnect the old ones and replace with new. I've ordered a couple of litres with the hoses.
Is there anywhere I can get the right torque settings for tightening the various parts after since I probably over-tightened before and might have caused some of my own problems. lastly do you know the order for bleeding for an FR-V 2008 1.8l petrol? Maybe I ought to find the Haynes somewhere


Tom Greenleaf
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May 31, 2017, 6:12 AM

Post #10 of 17 (634 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

No waste in doing hoses IMO. For torque specs please do look it up if your asking you should use tools to know. Describing how tight isn't a way so I won't.


Do enough on certain things you just know but not for a one time deal. Do expect more for bracket to spindles and less for pins with that type. Some OE were done with thread locker if suggested use it.


Don't forget proper places to lube with specific brake lube is both heat tolerant and rubber friendly plus helps prevent rust which can lock up a caliper if bad enough,


T



Discretesignals
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May 31, 2017, 6:28 AM

Post #11 of 17 (632 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Here's a tip to keep brake fluid from leaking out when you open up that system after the master.

Remove the stop lamp fuse and then use a prop to push and hold the brake pedal. That will cause the pistons in the master to cover the reservoir ports, so fluid won't drain out of the reservoir. Saves you from having to crimp off hoses.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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May 31, 2017, 7:45 AM

Post #12 of 17 (626 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

If you're going to do that, watch your eyes when you crack that line open or open the line first. It will be under pressure and as soon as you open the system, the resistance to the prop will go away and the prop will likely fall off unless someone is there to firm it back up.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 31, 2017, 7:45 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
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May 31, 2017, 8:41 AM

Post #13 of 17 (619 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Funny in a way - I don't do that but have a spring rod to the driver's seat not for this but rather can't totally check brake lights alone or if working on them needing them on. Saving brake fluid never on my mind I want brand new but can see how it could save a hassle bleeding some faster and easier,


T



worand
Novice

May 31, 2017, 8:55 AM

Post #14 of 17 (611 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Many thanks for the advice guys.
About the torque, I was asking if you knew where I could find the required torque settings because although I didn't have a torque wrench before I have one now and I want to get it right. I can't find a workshop manual anywhere for the FR-V.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 31, 2017, 11:10 AM

Post #15 of 17 (603 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

IDK right now I'd have to do some hunting myself. It's not good enough to just describe how tight. I've done so dang many you just know. Bracket is a strong bolt and they are marked for hardness as most are. Gives you a clue what is taking forces to the limits and what isn't with this stuff.


Valid question I just don't have a listing available any better than you can find too. It matters because you asked. Torque of things does matter most of time critical for some parts to be right on and other close enough but still can't say by what tools you are using vs ones I would be using and be wrong isn't going to happen from me on specific torque you asked for without believing even a chart I could find,


T



Loren Champlain Sr
Veteran / Moderator
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May 31, 2017, 3:01 PM

Post #16 of 17 (590 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Probably too late now to check for contamination as HT suggested, just curious how you checked. Good way is to put the old fluid into a glass jar, then add water and shake.
If contaminated, the brake fluid and water will separate.
ANY petroleum product, i.e.: P/S fluid (which is now clear, these days), trans. fluid, ect. will cause the rubber seals and hoses to swell, thereby restricting the fluid to return to the master cyl. If that's the case, every rubber part in the system will have to be replaced or overhauled, then the whole system flushed with denatured alcohol.
Loren
SW Washington


worand
Novice

Jun 10, 2017, 7:35 AM

Post #17 of 17 (557 views)
Re: Hot Brakes, Honda FR-V 2008 Sign In

Thanks to all for your help. I've been waiting for the new calipers and brake lines which have now arrived and have been fitted. Just going to bleed it all and check it out.
So initially the first issue was a sticking piston which wore the pads down on one wheel and I discovered the issue when changing the pads. It wasn't completely stuck which is why there was no burning smell to begin with. The really jammed pads came after fitting the new pads and pistons and since I had tested that the pistons moved perfectly freely I should have worked out that the issue was with the new pads.
Pretty much the biggest national supplier here in the UK had supplied me with the wrong pads. Listed for exactly my vehicle on their system but not actually for an FR-V. Exactly the same dimensions as well (except for 0.2mm which is about as much as a film of water) but the difference was the positioning of the studs on the reverse. Maybe if I had fitted them without the piston fully retracted I would have noticed basically the stud was up against the piston rim and stuck into it and stopped the pads moving (photo attached). I've claimed against the supplier for new rotors and calipers, we'll see how i get on. They STILL have the wrong part listed.
Thanks again for all the help.







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