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Misfire with trailer


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roadrash
New User

Apr 25, 2022, 6:05 AM

Post #1 of 10 (98972 views)
Misfire with trailer Sign In

Honda N650V deauville 1999. (650cc a"V" twin cylinder CDI ignition with twin carbs.

Just fitted towbar and started pulling trailer behind bike. But strangely when I turn on the indicators with the trailer attached I get a misfire. As soon as I cancel the indicator the misfire stops.
I checked battery voltage with engine running and it 14.6 volts so that's ok. The earth lead on this bike runs from battery to engine so just to be sure bike frame is getting good earth I fitted another heavy duty earth lead to the frame as well but still got misfire.
Any ideas anyone what would case this?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 25, 2022, 7:46 AM

Post #2 of 10 (98655 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

Moved this to plain troubleshooting doesn't matter all are read.
I can only "common sense " this as IDK what thing this is or how wired up for trailer?? Same deal CDI (capacitor discharge ignition) wants some stead known voltage and trailer bulbs or how tapped into power is lowering available Volts or reduced amps - strong clue.
Take the bulbs out of trailer's lights see if it happens? If not and replaceable maybe (some aren't replaceable, whole fixture?) are auto sized sockets could use known consumption LED bulbs.
I couldn't guess what it's charging system is capable up and what would over load it? You would see that if tested at the engine and again when it does it bet it's off,
T



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Apr 25, 2022, 7:59 AM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 25, 2022, 1:35 PM

Post #3 of 10 (98629 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

So, I assume this does not happen without the trailer attached.

That has to mean there is a problem with the way the trailer wiring tapped into the bike wiring.

I would need to see a wiring diagram for the bike to understand how it may be interfering with the ignition.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



roadrash
New User

Apr 25, 2022, 3:16 PM

Post #4 of 10 (98611 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In


In Reply To
Moved this to plain troubleshooting doesn't matter all are read.
I can only "common sense " this as IDK what thing this is or how wired up for trailer?? Same deal CDI (capacitor discharge ignition) wants some stead known voltage and trailer bulbs or how tapped into power is lowering available Volts or reduced amps - strong clue.
Take the bulbs out of trailer's lights see if it happens? If not and replaceable maybe (some aren't replaceable, whole fixture?) are auto sized sockets could use known consumption LED bulbs.
I couldn't guess what it's charging system is capable up and what would over load it? You would see that if tested at the engine and again when it does it bet it's off,
T


Thanks for those ideas. Will try a few things tomorrow.


roadrash
New User

Apr 25, 2022, 3:32 PM

Post #5 of 10 (98609 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In


In Reply To
So, I assume this does not happen without the trailer attached.

That has to mean there is a problem with the way the trailer wiring tapped into the bike wiring.

I would need to see a wiring diagram for the bike to understand how it may be interfering with the ignition.


Thanks for the reply and advice. I just happen straight off the connectors on my rear light cluster 1x tail light, 1x brake light and a left and right indicator. Oh and of course a earth wire from the bike to the trailer.
I've ordered a heavy duty flasher relay to see if that will help.
I too cant understand how a flasher bulb on the trailer could affect the ignition circuit. Yes if I unplug the trailer or even leave it connected but turn off the flashes it will stop misfiring. I could understand if there was a drop in battery voltage occured when the flashers were used but battery voltage does not drop and is showing it's being charged when engine is running.
I am thinking maybe I should try using a separate flasher relay just for the trailer lights. The bike when flashers are running has 2x 12v 21w bulbs flashing and the trailer just one 12v 21w bulb. So total if 3x 12v 21w bulbs flashing at any one time.
Trailer also has 2x tail light bulbs and 2x brake light bulbs too.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 25, 2022, 3:43 PM

Post #6 of 10 (98607 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

I don't think the flasher has anything to do with this issue. That will only effect the speed of the flashers.

Something has to be robbing current from the ignition circuit somewhere. That's why a wiring diagram would be very helpful to see the relationship to the two circuits.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 25, 2022, 10:55 PM

Post #7 of 10 (98590 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

Basics OP: The 1999 era of 12V things - about anything better for me I don't know this bike nor trailer at all just see them around now and then.


Flasher is "bi-metal" being bent by heat of the power that goes thru it when sensed will make the power connection, heat up and shut it off or vs versa. Can be done with or without moving parts or the bi-metal strip.


It's an addition load on the power available to this thing that it may not be able to handle at assorted speeds of engine or gauge of wire.


One item hogs the power but ignition needs a steady source buffered by the battery in this case AND the charging system.
If battery can't cover a quick spike of load alone it's under powered for this new load has a time limit how long it's not totally covered by the charging system.
Hmmm > Being a bike limits just adding more and larger charging system so reduce load this thing needs voltage delivered to stay within the low and high limits at other items.
So the extra load hogging power lowers what the ignition gets and it stumbles or misfires. I own a wild assortment of machine and stuff see them do that adding lights in particular is what you did and tap into IDK but it's clearly lowering specs for the ignition to operate - right?


Lower the load or up the wire gauge or battery if this was best it can be I hope you don't need to use directionals more than time to make the turn. If it has running or brake lights too count that in.
Headlights on bikes where I am must be on at all times for road used motor bikes since OMG the 70s was wise for many to be seen.
That's the largest load I can think of for bikes (motorcycles in this case) you should be able to lower that load with just changing a bulb inside it or if a sealed beam see what is available out there for specific bikes - machines of all sorts.
It doesn't do anything wrong without the trailer drawing juice (slang for power) so it's clearly overloaded for what it can do.
If all sources for electric power are not up to this added load you'd need to do all of the items in order and YOU become the engineer of this new load being compatible with what is available.
All this note (my bad) suggest see if you can lower the load of headlight(s) on this thing or find out how much that uses about all had to stay on that I see my own (I've owned motorcycles road bikes + Honda by chance) all had no choice but headlight on anytime engine was running it would shut off if stalled - was along time ago new bikes mid 70s no LED anything at the time, headlight the largest electrical load all the time starting them was more (electric) but could manually if the battery failed,


Tom



roadrash
New User

Apr 26, 2022, 8:33 AM

Post #8 of 10 (98570 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

Thank you for that Tom, its very helpful. Your mention of the battery Amperage got me thinking and went and checked what size it was. It was a 12v 9Ah which is actually quite small for a big 'ish V twin. I also have a 1980 Honda CX500 and even that has a 14ah battery. So I checked the forums for my bike and it seems people living in colder climes than me like Canada have trouble starting them in winter sometimes. Its actually quite normal to upgrade to a 14ah battery of the same size a (YTZ14S) which is the same dimensions so I ordered one today as a start. Hopefully this will work but if not I am going to try a better flasher unit.
Thanks though for the help I will let you know if it works.


In Reply To
Basics OP: The 1999 era of 12V things - about anything better for me I don't know this bike nor trailer at all just see them around now and then.


Flasher is "bi-metal" being bent by heat of the power that goes thru it when sensed will make the power connection, heat up and shut it off or vs versa. Can be done with or without moving parts or the bi-metal strip.


It's an addition load on the power available to this thing that it may not be able to handle at assorted speeds of engine or gauge of wire.


One item hogs the power but ignition needs a steady source buffered by the battery in this case AND the charging system.
If battery can't cover a quick spike of load alone it's under powered for this new load has a time limit how long it's not totally covered by the charging system.
Hmmm > Being a bike limits just adding more and larger charging system so reduce load this thing needs voltage delivered to stay within the low and high limits at other items.
So the extra load hogging power lowers what the ignition gets and it stumbles or misfires. I own a wild assortment of machine and stuff see them do that adding lights in particular is what you did and tap into IDK but it's clearly lowering specs for the ignition to operate - right?


Lower the load or up the wire gauge or battery if this was best it can be I hope you don't need to use directionals more than time to make the turn. If it has running or brake lights too count that in.
Headlights on bikes where I am must be on at all times for road used motor bikes since OMG the 70s was wise for many to be seen.
That's the largest load I can think of for bikes (motorcycles in this case) you should be able to lower that load with just changing a bulb inside it or if a sealed beam see what is available out there for specific bikes - machines of all sorts.
It doesn't do anything wrong without the trailer drawing juice (slang for power) so it's clearly overloaded for what it can do.
If all sources for electric power are not up to this added load you'd need to do all of the items in order and YOU become the engineer of this new load being compatible with what is available.
All this note (my bad) suggest see if you can lower the load of headlight(s) on this thing or find out how much that uses about all had to stay on that I see my own (I've owned motorcycles road bikes + Honda by chance) all had no choice but headlight on anytime engine was running it would shut off if stalled - was along time ago new bikes mid 70s no LED anything at the time, headlight the largest electrical load all the time starting them was more (electric) but could manually if the battery failed,


Tom



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 26, 2022, 9:52 AM

Post #9 of 10 (98564 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

Flasher: The common is sensing load of the bulbs it will "blink" such that adding more will blink faster in bi-metal which heats up, expands at different amounts so touches points inside. If you blow a bulb that side blinks differently or quits - by the time so much power is drawn (cars/trucks) you'd change same but different flasher to work. No LED then.

Others could be electronic without moving parts I plead IDK all things ever done but quite a bit.

I'm NOT sure just how the charging system is set up in bikes! Actually shocked at myself would go searching if one didn't work.

I'm not sure you could upgrade charging system on bikes - just out of my area the whole design is to fit and go like a raped ape !!

I quit the chatty crap and ask what type of headlight is on this now a single bulb two filaments or you get the whole unit if it blew? Tge newer the more apt to be "Halogen" used a lot vs regular or OE on some things as read off of packaging.

If that is taking maybe 100W of power + charging system keeps up you can lower that with LED (I've said that) now if a bulb to 25W or less and be brighter the rest is up for other things.

That was my thought for an approach your limited by charging system the battery is still to start it and cover spikes in up or down but only so long if overwhelmed constantly it would go dead while in use.

Both thinking and some "been there done that" on assorted engines adding lights at all where some didn't have any wasn't a road vehicle at all.

Carry on find out what draw you have + look up specs for charging system on this plus battery if more AMP hr. hour that holds may be enough - can't tell this trailer is an IDK totally you need to find out,

Tom


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 26, 2022, 10:05 AM

Post #10 of 10 (98559 views)
Re: Misfire with trailer Sign In

As I said earlier, the only thing the flasher changes is the speed of the flashing.

Have you considered maybe using LED bulbs in the trailer to draw less current?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







 
 
 






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