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Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual]


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hamking
Novice

Nov 7, 2011, 2:10 PM

Post #1 of 28 (12830 views)
Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Well, I've been at this sucker for a while now. This was my third attempt and it still has not budged.

Saw someone on amazon say Crowsfoot wrench head helped them get their stuck power steering hose off, so I thought I'd try it.

Finally got my crowsfoot socket set in the mail and a free weekend to try this out.
I was finally able to generate adequate torque on this bolt by affixing my vice-grips firmly to the upper bolt and placing the end of the vice grips under the alternator to hold it in place.

Cranking on the lower bolt with my socket attached to crowsfoot, I was able to generate enough torque to…. strip the bolt.
Looks like it was too effective, and the bolt is too rusted and stuck.

This was after soaking the bolt with several coatings of PB blaster and waiting 20 minutes for it to sink in.

I’ve got a new power steering HP hose/cable that I am going to be replacing this old rusted one with.
I just cannot, for the life of me, get this bolt off, and now it is stripped.

What do I do now???

Even if I cut this thing off with a torch, how would I get this rusted bolt end out? It needs to come out before I can install my new hose.
Looking for some good, sure-fire ideas here!!

This is the third attempt I’ve made to get this bolt off. I want to make sure my 4th attempt will be successful.
How would a professional mechanic take this off??

All ideas welcome..
PLEASE HELP!











Hammer Time
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Nov 7, 2011, 2:37 PM

Post #2 of 28 (12819 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

If you keep using that tool you'll be buying every line in the car. That's what they make tubing wrenches for but you have to do it before you have destroyed the fitting.

It ooks like that one was already seized anyway. You're going to have to replace both lines.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Nov 7, 2011, 2:41 PM)


re-tired
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Nov 7, 2011, 2:59 PM

Post #3 of 28 (12800 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

And when you go to replace the lines ,buy a set of quality metric line wrenches (craftsman is good for the DIY crowd)


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


Sidom
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Nov 7, 2011, 7:43 PM

Post #4 of 28 (12787 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

By the looks of that picture, than nut is already done. MAYBE a Snap On line wrench or crows foot MIGHT get it.

Vise grips or a pipe wrench is one of the last options that would be used, while realizing that the nut/bolt heat is going be rendered unusable..

ALWAYS use a wrench or socket to hold it & to try to loosen it........Vise grips, etc destroy fasteners...

This one I would try a S/O line wrench. Next I would get the line up high enough to hold one end & use a pipe wrench on the nut. Next I would cut the line & use a S/O socket on the nut. Next I'd take the other end off, put it in a vise, rap it a few time with an air hammer & use a pipe wrench.
Last I would tell the writer to call the customer & sell the other line & put a new one on it...


(This post was edited by Sidom on Nov 7, 2011, 7:45 PM)


re-tired
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Nov 7, 2011, 9:35 PM

Post #5 of 28 (12775 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

BTW *****Those were some great photos , really helped us understand your problem.Wish all posters were as helpful.


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


Discretesignals
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Nov 7, 2011, 10:20 PM

Post #6 of 28 (12771 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Those are very good pictures. Infact as I kept scrolling down I was expecting to see something like this next:







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 8, 2011, 5:42 AM

Post #7 of 28 (12760 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

I've fought with flare nuts w vehicles
just a few years old in this rust belt.

Frequently/usually it's the line inside
the nut stopping the show.

That's where the PB goes. Threads of the nut
will probably behave. A fluid line such as this
glowing heat is not a good option.

IDK, is there room for a tubing cutter (hack saw would leave filings - no) then use a quality
six point socket to remove it? Sometimes when rounded
you can force a socket the WRONG exact size from either
a metric or SAE selection and get a good grab on those
then replace the line entirely. Put a smear of high temp grease
where a flare nut is on the line AND on the threads in case
you are back there again it will just undo.

Flare nut wrenches and crow foot flare nut sockets a must.

If 5-6 point can't get on an already destroyed hex.

Tis an art to fight with those. Most are undercar where
I am,

T



Discretesignals
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Nov 8, 2011, 5:58 AM

Post #8 of 28 (12753 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

I betcha dry ice would break that loose.





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Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 8, 2011, 6:45 AM

Post #9 of 28 (12745 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Very interesting idea! Shrink instead of expand - never tried it but in real tough or flammables a great thought,

T



Hammer Time
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Nov 8, 2011, 6:46 AM

Post #10 of 28 (12739 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

A cleaner way is to spray liquid refrigerant on it.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 8, 2011, 6:57 AM

Post #11 of 28 (12736 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Another interesting idea! Side tap on computer duster would make it legal but never had a side tap hold any remaining productUnsure

T



Hammer Time
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Nov 8, 2011, 6:59 AM

Post #12 of 28 (12731 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Just attach a hose to a 30 pounder for us.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



hamking
Novice

Nov 8, 2011, 8:15 AM

Post #13 of 28 (12727 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In


In Reply To
I've fought with flare nuts w vehicles
just a few years old in this rust belt.

Frequently/usually it's the line inside
the nut stopping the show.

That's where the PB goes. Threads of the nut
will probably behave. A fluid line such as this
glowing heat is not a good option.

IDK, is there room for a tubing cutter (hack saw would leave filings - no) then use a quality
six point socket to remove it? Sometimes when rounded
you can force a socket the WRONG exact size from either
a metric or SAE selection and get a good grab on those
then replace the line entirely. Put a smear of high temp grease
where a flare nut is on the line AND on the threads in case
you are back there again it will just undo.

Flare nut wrenches and crow foot flare nut sockets a must.

If 5-6 point can't get on an already destroyed hex.

Tis an art to fight with those. Most are undercar where
I am,

T


So you think cut it off right at the base of the nut, and then fit a socket head onto it and go from there?

That's an option...


hamking
Novice

Nov 8, 2011, 8:27 AM

Post #14 of 28 (12725 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In


In Reply To
I betcha dry ice would break that loose.


I could try this, but can you give some advice on effectively applying the dry ice so I have a fighting chance of capitalizing on it's effects?

Never done this before, so what would be a good method or rule of thumb to use when trying to apply this for my situation?


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 8, 2011, 8:36 AM

Post #15 of 28 (12724 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Flare nuts where used are not making the seal by threads but rather the tube being held tight to receiving other part. The nut should spin free but when salted road water get in there the nut sticks to the line and even if you can turn the nut the line can twist up and wreck it.

Compression fitting should be legal for all but fuel carrying line. Most of the troubles I've had were brake line issues and the twisted line thing.

Tubing with flare nuts is really using the inside of the line not outside metal. With the flaring tool and proper union you can make a legal line or replace it totally to other end as many don't have room to go back on line to a good spot and have room without jumping thru hoops. The fix for high pressure items really needs to be done right and fuel line doesn't allow compression splices nor hose and clamps trickery,

T



Sidom
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Nov 8, 2011, 10:44 AM

Post #16 of 28 (12713 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Hmmmmmm that's a good idea, I never used dry ice before..... How hard is it to get a hold of?? I think Desi's idea would probably work good as well, I'll have to give it a shot....

This is one tool on the list that I would've had along time ago if I was in the "rust belt"

Mini Ductor II


Hammer Time
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Nov 8, 2011, 11:18 AM

Post #17 of 28 (12704 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Just so the poster knows what the goal is here, the freezing would be applied to the inside part to shrink it away from the outer part and give the threads clearance. It will do no good at all if both parts are cooled. The same principle with heat. The intent is to heat the outer part and expand it away from the inside.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



hamking
Novice

Nov 8, 2011, 11:49 AM

Post #18 of 28 (12695 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In


In Reply To
Just so the poster knows what the goal is here, the freezing would be applied to the inside part to shrink it away from the outer part and give the threads clearance. It will do no good at all if both parts are cooled. The same principle with heat. The intent is to heat the outer part and expand it away from the inside.


Understood. Thanks for the suggestions so far.
Now, has anyone reading this used dry ice before in an application like this?

If so, please share your experience as I have never done this before.
At this point, I'm still entertaining all ideas, but would like to have some know-how of these methods before I give this another shot.

Thanks!


(This post was edited by hamking on Nov 8, 2011, 11:50 AM)


hamking
Novice

Nov 8, 2011, 12:48 PM

Post #19 of 28 (12688 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Does anyone have any experience with CRC Freeze Off (or similar products)?

Looks like a good idea in theory:

http://youtu.be/vKEVE0bwP5U


Hammer Time
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Nov 8, 2011, 1:26 PM

Post #20 of 28 (12678 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

It looks like a can of refrigerant with penetrating oil mixed in.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Nov 8, 2011, 5:52 PM

Post #21 of 28 (12667 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

You could make a little tray for your fitting to sit in it. Then fill it with dry ice. Try your local grocery store. They may carry it. Don't touch it with your bare hands.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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Nov 8, 2011, 5:56 PM

Post #22 of 28 (12661 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Dry ice is very dangerous to handle and I really don't see a way to hit one fitting and not the other. If you freeze both fittings, you haven't accomplished anything. I don't think we should be giving advice like that here.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Nov 8, 2011, 6:26 PM

Post #23 of 28 (12654 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

Theoretically it shrinks the outside fitting first breaking the rust loose. The refrigerant idea would work better because it is a lot easier to control. The freeze sprays are also effective. Dry ice is the archaic way.

I'd like to try the mini ductor as SID linked. Sid have you used that?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 8, 2011, 6:45 PM)


autotecha
User

Nov 8, 2011, 6:36 PM

Post #24 of 28 (12643 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In

The Dry Ice method does work but as stated its dangerous and could cause more damage. The refridgerant method is good along with the other suggestions here.
*******ASE Master Automotive Technician, L-1, L-2 and a lot of wallpaper too :-)******


Hammer Time
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Nov 8, 2011, 6:37 PM

Post #25 of 28 (12642 views)
Re: Power steering bolt nightmare! HELP!! [2002 Mazda Protege 2.0L Manual] Sign In


Quote
Dry ice is the archaic way.


And very dangerous. Not for the DIYer.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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