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1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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DanR217
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Dec 18, 2020, 6:39 PM
Post #1 of 22
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1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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I have to rev the engine much too high to get the clutch to engage and get the car moving. I was stuck in a parking lot moving slow and stopping a lot and smoke started pouring out of the back of the engine. No leaks anywhere.
What could the problem be?
The engine is an '85 Ford 302. The transmission is a four speed but that's all I know about it.
(This post was edited by DanR217 on Dec 18, 2020, 6:43 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 18, 2020, 7:12 PM
Post #2 of 22
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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It's pretty obvious you totally burned out the clutch and I'm sure the flywheel too by now.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 18, 2020, 7:32 PM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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That was the smoke to totally agree with Hammer.
As you must know or maybe not "68 Cougar" was second model year Mercury mostly put their name on a Mustang body. IDK why you or someone chose 1985 for a 302 or also 5.0 was lousy but was/is a 302 block same as you could get I think in '68?
Parts galore should be pre made and ready for bolt on changes that this is if asking for Mustang exact fit Mercury TMK didn't make this with a standard shift new - a real slight maybe a few got thru?
It either wasn't adjusted properly for the high end of clutch pedal or was burned up from erratic use should have noticed loss of that free-play if all new and right you can wreck a clutch in very short time and use.
Again - the smoke was burning up a clutch. If it is thought out properly this is actually an easy one to do as they go + probably not wild cost for even the flywheel if there would look like blue overheated metal when apart.
Adjust it right and this wont happen so fast again but you stuck to do it now,
T
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DanR217
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Dec 18, 2020, 8:04 PM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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Great that's what I was afraid of. The clutch was brand new, probably less than 30 miles on it. "Professionally" installed but we see how that went.
Idk why they chose '85. What's wrong with the 85 302s?
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DanR217
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Dec 18, 2020, 8:12 PM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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Aside from the smoking, the other issue sounds like the clutch too?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 19, 2020, 1:51 AM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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WoW! 30 miles. Friction material isn't that much on the disc itself "slipping" gets red hot so just ends it. Pro done? The issue was as I said the free-play was at top of pedal you lose that applying power so leave for this vintage an inch or so it they self destruct.
Comments about 1985 302/5.0 (same) if all they used was the block/heads it's fine. The injection system lacked terribly also sounds low but was rated at some horrifying low HP like 140 at best. It would have been for a Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or full size Lincolns with Panther platform. Trucks were counter-rotating so not one of those.
Many model years were not just IMO but yeas of MALAISE (just ill being rushed to make MPG and lower emissions) basically skip mid 70's thru mid 80s however the block is fine as said. Other makers also - just troubled model years.
Cougar wasn't made (best I know) with an I-6 engine would have had more power than this many did quite well but not put in Cougars?
Enjoy it it's pre smog you can mess with these for alterations quite a bit. Body is weak still just know it yet some came with 427R code NUKE power if you opened a door at full throttle bend the car!
Knew and worked on many one '67, two 68s a Q-code and rare R-code later found to have like 700 HP, a trick C-6 auto trans factory done.
Fascinating cars to me vs Mustangs around like litter.
Ahhh - I recall a lot yet never owned one. Pulse you wipers with your knee pushing to the right! Squirter for washer fluid was a Woopie cushion your foot pushed on! A Mercury was not into the Muscle cars as much as Fords so of interest they did some pretty wild stuff.
OMG - I can't believe I am old enough recall them all new not long after the model year these were very affordable used cars, few escaped being beat to death as fast weighing like an umbrellas vs road monsters that would bump and ruin this whole body hindsight too much so but fun mattered,
T
(PS and trivial but matters) The Mustang of this was 6V volt dash gauges if or when broken it's "registered" down electrically so if not nothing reads properly let the Mustang maniacs help - no shortage of them not me BTW,
Tom
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DanR217
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Dec 19, 2020, 4:14 AM
Post #7 of 22
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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Thanks for all the info Tom! Yeah, it's a new block and heads from Jasper. Edlebrock carb and electronic ignition. I got it and have been building it (having it built rather?) to be a daily driver, I not too into super high performance.
You're right, there were no I-6 Cougars.
I'll share the info you gave me with my new mechanic, thank you very much for the info. My old mechanic screwed me over pretty bad, ended up messing up more stuff than he fixed. Come to find out he's not even a board certified mechanic so there's nothing I can do but sew him. The list of things he messed up is long but to show you how careless he was, he used the wrong color paint on the rear driver quarter panel and knew he was doing it. He really did not care what he messed up.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 19, 2020, 6:00 AM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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Forgive my typos = keyboard is messed up so is this site if you noticed. This is crude mechanical skill - still matters if techs didn't get this tidbit of the whole thing if just some machine THEY owe you a re-do of that job.
Another maybe that they made it hydraulic linkage? That wasn't for these ever both types can but harped on the free-play when engine torques on rubber motor mounts you LOSE that free-play so "CLUTCH IS SLIPPING" BY ITSELF!
That "free-play" YOU can feel use a finger to push clutch. The area it returns up top to a rubber bumper unseen to where it's touching fingers of a pressure plate is beginning to disengage clutch. "Riding a Clutch" would be a driver error just said it will self "ride" part disengaged so that slopping is possibly 3000F right where it's riding/slipping can do for a few seconds no more or its melted even metal ruined.
Understood now on the engine - done with that.
Your call on who to fuss with if paying for this work and paint/body things it's still interesting to me as a "should be" easy to find parts for that fit cloned or whatever because of the platform it was built on BTW from a FALCON in 1960(?) I think Lee Iacocca rushed to make the Mustang used the Falcon parts this Cougar still shares a lot with that!
Smile, Tom
PS: added trivia: It has the 3 sequential rear directionals was all mechanical motors riding on connections could hear that. By now a chip would do the same for this car too that was a nightmare to fix!
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DanR217
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Dec 19, 2020, 11:06 AM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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Oh wow, I didn't know that about the Falcons, that's really cool!
I'm not going to be able to get anything from that other mechanic, no work or money back unless I sue him. I made a lot of mistakes dealing with him and a big one was that I paid him before I drove the car. Other things I paid him for weren't working right and I went back and found out he didn't even test drive it. I told him I was disappointed he didn't test drive it, just like that, very calm and polite, and he said, "If you don't like it and you're going to be a d*** about it, then you can get in your car and get the f*** out of here."
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 19, 2020, 12:10 PM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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Sorry about your help it's so mechanical vs everything 40+ year old now is a retro rethink of how things HAVE to be to work. IDK types of alterations could make it time costly to figure out even current experienced techs take time and look hard how it's done.
Now with your dismay are YOU thinking of doing this yourself? I spare the course on clutches if not. If so you could with minimal tools AND a helper do need jacks, jack stands - basics but if you don't have the place or a helper it would be difficult without wild amounts of tools not worth it.
Let us know or just find the right person/mechanic/tech that actually fixes things not just a parts tosser!
Tom
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DanR217
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Dec 19, 2020, 12:45 PM
Post #11 of 22
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I just moved to where I am so I don't have anyone that can help me. I also don't have a place to work on it. I probably hadn't the tools but they're in storage and it's not super expensive so I'd rather pay someone to do it.
I was an F-15 mechanic in the Air Force but that was easy. There was an entire team of experienced technicians to help guide and check the work, plus every tool you can think of. The manuals (TO's) are very precise too. There's a literal library of them and they explain every job pretty much down to the number of times you have to turn the fasteners. There's a hydraulic manifold that the books say takes two guys 10 hours to remove. I can do it, I just don't have the place or help.
I really appreciate all of your help without ragging on me.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 19, 2020, 1:09 PM
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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No prob. Just try to find another tech, perhaps older. Tough times we (speak for here) can't go anywhere but even here "networking" meaning ask around for who even if like me mostly done except my own stuff and LOTS of it.
Wrong time of year here neat ancient cars aren't out and around (rust belt and did just BLZZARD here) you would want to drive this in that. When if you see another many folks with a similar car would know who and where?
Depending on just where you are you may find almost NO standard shift cars hence the instant know how. Prob #1 for the second person is holding tran's weight going back to you don't warp a new clutch disc the front shaft is already thru disk before you snug up trans then it's almost done alone after just that step even I don't own a "trans jack" that holds them and rolls could do alone without helper that doesn't need to understand just hold the damn thing up while I tighten this type of thing not let it hang by shaft that job is ruined almost always,
Tom
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DanR217
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Dec 26, 2020, 11:20 AM
Post #13 of 22
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Re: 1968 Cougar manual transmission problem
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What about gear ratio? Would having a higher/lower ratio make it so I'd have to launch at a higher rpm? My mechanic said that an a/c from the old a/c system had fallen on the exhaust and that's what was causing all of the smoke. It seems like someone who owned the car in the past did a lot of modifications trying to turn this car into a street racer so I'm wondering if the gear ratio was one of them and if that could be causing the issue. The car had the "clutch chatter," as my mechanic calls it, before the new clutch was installed, afterwards and after the transmission was rebuilt.
(This post was edited by DanR217 on Dec 26, 2020, 11:27 AM)
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Hammer Time
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Dec 26, 2020, 11:34 AM
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Yes, it would if it was a higher ratio but that's the opposite of what a racer would do. A racer would want a lower gear for faster acceleration.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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DanR217
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Dec 26, 2020, 11:59 AM
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A lot of really weird stuff was done to this car and I'm wondering at some point if they just start throwing parts together so they'd have a drivable car and could sell it.
The transmission was just rebuilt and if it is the gear ratio, should the mechanic have caught that?
Lastly, is it very hard or expensive to have the gear ratio changed?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 26, 2020, 12:05 PM
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Top post said it all. There's not free-play! The only thing making pressure is called OMG a "pressure plate" the rest is removing that pressure requires that dang free- play with torque on engines you lose some so leave enough.
Other parts making smoke removes or ruined to alter this HOW COULD WE KNOW HOW HACKED THIS IS? Sure is seeming like armature work
If this era car is confusing to your in person help they aren't up to par for much of anything IMO,
Tom
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DanR217
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Dec 26, 2020, 12:12 PM
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I'm sorry I'll stop asking questions. Thank you for your help.
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Hammer Time
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Dec 26, 2020, 12:50 PM
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Wrong gear ratio or not, it would still be driveable if someone knows how to drive a stick. Most of what you are describing points to driver error.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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DanR217
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Dec 26, 2020, 1:03 PM
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It's not driver error. I learned to drive on a manual transmission truck, I had another manual transmission car for a short time, I've ridden motorcycles for 20 years and even two of the other mechanics at that shop agree it has to be revved way too high. 1000 rpm or more over idle seems a little excessive. The mechanic who rebuilt the transmission and adjusted the clutch said the clutch just has to be broken in. I've never driven a vehicle with a brand new clutch so I don't know what a brand new clutch feels like.
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DanR217
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Dec 26, 2020, 10:50 PM
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Wait, so first you say the clutch is burned out then it's driver error? I didn't ever say it wasn't drivable. Just because I don't know everything about cars means I don't know how to drive them? I run a pest control business but I wouldn't say that you can't kill bugs because you don't know everything about them.
I don't think you guys know what you're talking about. One of you says the clutch and flywheel are toast, the other says it's that the clutch is improperly adjusted, then after I post some more questions you change your tune and say it's driver error. I think you guys are just old and cranky. Don't be a mod on a help forum if you're gonna say it's the user's fault after you learn that they don't know much. I wouldn't be posting here if I did know a whole lot, would I?
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DanR217
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Dec 26, 2020, 10:52 PM
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It's all good, I found a forum that's not just two cranky old guys. Later
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Hammer Time
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Dec 27, 2020, 5:10 AM
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That's OK, we end up having to deal with idiots all the time.
Yes, .......from your original description it sounds like the clutch is fried
No, ........a hydraulic clutch is not adjustable
If .........the clutch is burned out, I believe it was due to driver error
If ......... you described the problem improperly, then yes the answer would be wrong.
Your original description sounded like the car would not move when the clutch was all the way out but not it sounds like all you are describing is that is requires more RPM to engage the clutch without stalling which would be a whole different issue.
Since you decided to attack us instead of explaining your problem properly, you will now find yourself banned from the forum. Good bye.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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