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A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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1993BuickLeSabreOwner
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Oct 12, 2013, 2:21 PM
Post #1 of 16
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A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Hello got some issues with my car's air conditioning I was wondering if anyone could help with.
Its a 1993 Buick Le Sabre with about 120,000 miles on it.
Recently bought this car used a few months back and for awhile the ac worked great, then it got to where it would switch off after a while of driving and this got worse and worse till it almost never would come on. Had someone tell us that it was the low pressure switch and we took the time to replace that along with the accumulator, valves, switch and made the switch from R12 to R134a at the same time. After pulling a vacuum on it and recharging the system with new R134a the ac clutch will not engage. So to fix that we figured out that we could jump the clutch and get it to work, unfortunately it burned some wire so we replaced them too. Next we thought the ECU might be bad from the burned wires so re replaced it, just swapped the PROM from the old one into the new one (any one know if it needs to be programed or something?) and even after all this the ac won't work! Also, now with the new ECU unit when the high ac button is pressed the car frequently blows the fuse that goes to the blower. I'm Thinking it might be the control unit with the buttons and sliders that let you control the ac and heat that may be bad now. Been working on this for a couple of months now, really want to know what should be done to fix it, any help would be appreciated!
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nickwarner
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Oct 12, 2013, 3:03 PM
Post #2 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Been working on this for a couple of months now, really want to know what should be done to fix it, any help would be appreciated!
I will be blunt about this and its not intended to belittle you, but what you need to do is STOP now. You are fooling with a system you do not understand and are doing what can only be described as hack work due to your lack of knowledge about this system.
I do not know who diagnosed this originally as a pressure switch issue, but with the age of this I would doubt that was correct. There is likely a leak and the low pressure switch was reading right. Did you charge this using weighed measurement of refrigerant? Was this system completely flushed out prior to the switch of refrigerant types? Older R-12 systems used ester oil, which is not compatible with R-134a that requires PAG oil. Did you use virgin clean 134a or was this a death kit with the leak sealer crap in it? If you used the stuff with leak sealer, honestly give up on having AC now. The damage done will exceed the value of this car to repair.
The absolute worst thing you can do to this is to rig up the jumper wire that you put in, and I'm sure you realize that now and are kicking yourself for doing so, which is why you have come here to ask us what the next step is. I will not beat a dead horse on that, you understand that it was bad. What you needed to do was troubleshoot the circuit to find out WHY it wasn't being energized.
This car doesn't control the AC through the PCM. Its an OBD-1. You wasted good money on a PCM you did not need. I think you have likely fried out your HVAC control head with a power surge which you saw did happen when you were able to create a fire jumping wires.
You tried to DIY this, which is OK for people who have done the proper homework and have the knowledge of the system. You got in over your head unfortunately and I'm sorry to give you this bad news. You have done a lot of expensive damage and it would be cheaper to buy a different vehicle than to try to keep working with this, especially given the fact you do not know what you are doing.
Please do not take offense with how I have phrased this. I do support those who try to tackle things themselves and need help on it, and I find it sad to see things like this happen.
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1993BuickLeSabreOwner
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Oct 12, 2013, 8:48 PM
Post #4 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Ok thanks. I thought that it did because I traced a wire from under the hood there.
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1993BuickLeSabreOwner
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Oct 12, 2013, 8:55 PM
Post #5 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Ok to answer some of your questions on the refrigerant change here is what was done. After the system was discharged it was dissembled everything exempt the compressor and the ac radiator that I think is called a condenser. The pipes were cleaned out and a new accumulator was installed. The compressor was removed and all of the R12 style lubricant was removed along with some stop leak stuff that was already in there. Next it was reassemble with all new o rings and fresh R134a style lubricant added to the compressor 6oz I think. Then I pulled a vacuum on the system for an hour and it held so I don't think there are any leaks. Finally it was refilled with regular store bought cans of refrigerant with a manifold that shows the high pressure and low pressure sides. Added three cans which should have been just a little low. I think that this was the proper way to do this so I did do my homework. Any suggestions with this new information?
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nickwarner
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Oct 12, 2013, 9:12 PM
Post #6 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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You did the right thing flushing it, but adding the entire charge of oil to the compressor was a bad move. You see, the refrigerant as it moves through the system also carries the oil to the compressor. So if it is all in the same spot and the compressor engages, it will run for a bit before anything makes its way back which runs it out of lubrication and will be a death sentence for the compressor.
How do you know for sure you got all the stop leak crap out? That stuff is like herpes, it likes to stay forever.
Another thing to bear in mind is the lines you are using were not only made to hold R-12, they are 21 years old. At a molecular level, R-12 is bigger than R-134a. So a hose that can hold R-12 at even a slow leakage rate will allow R-134a to go through it a lot easier. Never systems utilize a molecular barrier hose designed to stop this, which isn't what this vehicle was ever designed to use.
After adding the lube, did you rotate the center of the compressor by hand to ensure it wasn't locked up?
Your comments on this latest post have clarified a few things for me, and I see you have done more homework than I thought in your previous posts. While holding a vacuum will show no large leaks are present, remember you are applying a suction force, which is the opposite of what will be applied as pressure by the refrigerant. Some leaks will only show themselves under pressure.
Are you saying you used a manifold gauge set or that the can had a gauge on it? What was the weight of the cans that you did put in this system?
Do you have power at the compressor clutch when the fan is on and the AC is activated?
As it sits, what are the high and low side pressures at?
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1993BuickLeSabreOwner
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Oct 13, 2013, 5:29 PM
Post #7 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Thank you for the information I didn't know that about the hoses for sure.
Yes a manifold set with 3 hoses was used that the can screws onto the middle hose and lets you let the fluid in slowly.
39oz was added to the system. And yes the compressor was rotated by hand many times.
Well since the compressor isn't turning the high and low are the same.
No power with a regular hook up at the ac clutch with the ac on high and on.
It also may be worth noting that even though the clutch was off an obd I sensor scanner that was borrowed said ac compressor clutch engaged when it wasn't really engaged.
Really think it might be a wiring issue right now because with the new ECU in it whenever the ac is engaged it blows a fuse. Plan right now is to try to track down that wire.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 13, 2013, 5:43 PM
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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That is way too much refrigerant. The R12 charge is 38 and when retrofit you should only be charging 80% of original capacity using R134A which is about 30 ounces.
You may have a bad compressor clutch here. You should disconnect the plug and test it for power when the AC is activated with the engine running.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 13, 2013, 5:45 PM)
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greasy one
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Nov 12, 2013, 10:03 PM
Post #9 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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jeez I hate half a story
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Discretesignals
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Nov 13, 2013, 1:24 AM
Post #10 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Me too, buddy.
You wanna know what is funny about this thread? The charge was leaking out and eventually the compressor was turned off by the ECM because if the compressor cycles too much on an older Buick like that the ECM will disable the compressor and set an ac trouble code. If I remember I believe it is a code 66. To get the compressor to come back on after fixing the leak and recharging the system, you have to reset the ECM by either disconnecting the battery or clearing the trouble code with a scan tool. This guy didn't know that, so he ended up toasting something trying to figure out why the compressor wouldn't engage. Now he has all sorts of problems. I have seen this a lot working at the dealer and many people have replaced ECMs for this...LOL
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 13, 2013, 1:57 AM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2013, 5:27 AM
Post #12 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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It does it on manual systems also.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2013, 5:36 AM
Post #13 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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I disagree with that. The manual single zone system uses a conventional cycling switch without logic management.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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greasy one
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Nov 13, 2013, 5:48 AM
Post #14 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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I only know how to push the hot/ cold button. My car is the same as the OPs and it shut the compressor down due to low freon. I bet you all know that but are talking about something else.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2013, 7:05 AM
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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Yes, we are talking about something else.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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greasy one
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Nov 13, 2013, 8:53 AM
Post #16 of 16
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Re: A/C issues with 1993 Buick Lesabre
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I knew it even with all that overhead, whooshing noise lol.
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