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Toyota 5S-FE unknown problem
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Karu
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Aug 21, 2023, 7:41 PM
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Toyota 5S-FE unknown problem
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My 2001 Toyota Camry with the 5S-FE has an issue the few mechanics in my country home town has scratching their heads. It shows no fault codes and the engine light works as normal. It starts instantly when cold but runs lean and idle revs are low. As it warms up the revs rise and at running temp the idle revs will rise to 1,200 and often fluctuates between 1,200 and 1,400 RPM. It will now stall and takes a long time to start by what appears to be dumping fuel and running rich upon starting creating dangerous situations far more often than I like. I have cleaned the throttle body twice, thinking I could have missed something.
Thanks for your advice in advance.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 22, 2023, 3:59 AM
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Re: Toyota 5S-FE unknown problem
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How are you coming to these conclusions that it's running rich or lean?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Karu
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Aug 22, 2023, 5:42 AM
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How are you coming to these conclusions that it's running rich or lean?I suppose I am. The mechanic said that upon starting it is lean and when eventually starting when operating temp the workshop filled with the smell of unburned gasoline. I have often seen the evidence of the cloud of unburned fuel when it eventually starts in my mirror.
(This post was edited by Karu on Aug 22, 2023, 5:54 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 22, 2023, 6:10 AM
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Someone should be using control module data to reach these conclusions. That will tell you exactly what is happening and when.
Once you have that data, the first thing I would look at is comparing the temps of the IAT and ECT sensors with the engine dead cold. On a cold engine before it is started they should read the same.
You can get a lot of info from the data stream including the fuel adaptives.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Karu
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Aug 22, 2023, 7:37 AM
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Thanks. I have never been one to suggest to another who knows more than I how to do their job but, I really have no choice than to do so otherwise I am just wasting money and will have to continue to walk everywhere.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 22, 2023, 7:44 AM
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No, I don't suggest you tell the mechanic how to do his job but if he is not doing his job then you need to find a different mechanic.
The advice I gave was assuming you were trying to do this yourself. We are not in the business of giving mechanics help they are not asking for.
Whoever is doing this needs to be using a scan tool to analyze data. If your guy doesn't know this or you are expecting them to do it for free, this isn't going to get solved.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Karu
Novice
Aug 22, 2023, 8:52 AM
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I do not expect anyone to fix my car for free, I simply want to know I am not getting charged good money for nothing and the mechanic knows what he is doing. I just got sick of walking everywhere whilst having mechanics scratching their heads or tell me "If the engine light doesn't come on my scan tool won't tell me anything." So thank you for your knowledge I at least have something now and don't have to plan on throwing a wonderful car away because it is doing my head in.
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Karu
Novice
Aug 22, 2023, 5:22 PM
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If the engine light doesn't come on my scan tool won't tell me anything." That's a clear indication he does not have the knowledge and experience needed for this.The weirdest part of this is I told him that used his scan tool on my RAV4 with the 3S-FE which discovered it was the MAP sensor and it didn't have the engine light on. He replied. "That would be a miracle, but I would not have wasted my time without the engine light." Weird! If I was to purchase an OBDII scan tool will this show me, or does it need a professional one?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 22, 2023, 5:30 PM
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A scan tool is not just a code reader. There is all kinds of data that tool can provide that will give the tech a picture of what is going on inside the engine if he knows how to analyze the info.
Even if it had set a code for a specific component, that doesn't mean that component is the cause of the problem. It would require further diagnosis to pinpoint the problem.
As I said before, you need to find a different mechanic.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Sidom
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Aug 22, 2023, 11:18 PM
Post #11 of 17
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I don't want to trash the guys working on your car but there are 2 basic kinds of techs that trouble shoot problems. Code pullers and diag techs. A coder puller relies on a code (SES light on) to fix a problem and a diag tech can trouble shoot a problem with or without a trouble code.
There are also 2 types of tools for this a code reader or a scan tool. Readers will read and clear codes and most now will give you a basic datastream. Scan tools can cost thousands of dollars and have a lot of different info to read and tests to preform to help track down a problem.
From what you describe it sounds like you make have skewed coolant temp sensor and if it is just slightly skewed it will never set an ECT code and may not even set a P0174 rich code.
There is a saying they have in the training classes...... You have to know what good looks like before you will be able to see bad. meaning if you don't understand the systems then the datastream is just a bunch of jumbled numbers that don't mean anything.
If it's possible see if your guy can get you a datastream of the car running when it is 1st started cold, then another one after it warms up at idle and then a 3rd when it's warm and running at 2000 rpm.
If nothing else ask him to look at the ECT reading after the car has sat all night, it should have the same reading as the outside temp.
basically if it is 70 out and your ECT is reading 25 degrees, then you found your problem.
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Karu
Novice
Aug 23, 2023, 2:27 AM
Post #12 of 17
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Is it any wonder why I prefer the old carby and distributor. Thanks for your help.
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Karu
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Aug 24, 2023, 12:58 AM
Post #14 of 17
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Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I figured I could return it to a mechanic who didn't know what he was doing or I could simply replace the coolant sensor and hope. It now runs perfectly. I didn't know how nice it ran.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 24, 2023, 3:29 AM
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I don't understand your response. Did you do something that resolved the problem?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Karu
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Aug 24, 2023, 3:52 AM
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I am usually so precise in my writing and now I see I failed. Yes, I changed the coolant sensor. It was half the price of what I would have had to pay the mechanic.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 24, 2023, 3:55 AM
Post #17 of 17
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Glad to hear you got it resolved.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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