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samg.
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Dec 19, 2014, 9:28 PM
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Ford guys 3v question
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I apologize I have not got a lot of time in it so far, so I do not have a lot of info as far as the diagnosis.
I have a 2004 ford f-150 5.4 3v. It sets p0340, p0345, p0349 all cam pos codes. I have done a lot of phasers on these and tensioners on these engines, but am not great on diag side. When the guy pulled up it sounded for sure like bad phasers, he had just drove it 50 mi. I got in it to move it today (20 degrees here) and it made a insane amount of chain noise (leaking tensioners). It ran like complete crap. I shut it off after driving it around block and restarted - ran fine no noise.
I doubt a pcm would fry both cam pos feeds in pcm at the same time, and I know both signal return circuits are fine because a dozen other sensors use same wire. I have never seen one jump timing and run smooth intermit. Can a phaser or vct solenoid cause this?
Am I missing something?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2014, 5:56 AM
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Re: Ford guys 3v question
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Just a wild guess here..........
What weight oil is he using? If he's one of those old school guys and thinks heavy oil is a great thing, that would cause problems.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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samg.
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Dec 20, 2014, 6:12 AM
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Re: Ford guys 3v question
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It has 5-20 in it. I am gonna pull valve covers and check timing. Just do not believe it to be a ckt or ecm issue as the ford workshop states
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2014, 6:14 AM
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Re: Ford guys 3v question
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DS should be along soon. I suspect he will have some ideas.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2014, 6:39 AM
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Re: Ford guys 3v question
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Quick look for proper oil for this. A few 5.4s did call for 5-20 but said synthetic! Credible for some and would behave when cold better as stated a quick run it snapped out of this.
The guess is maybe what we think of as "thin" oil didn't have impressive oil pressure when warmed up so maybe a thickener additive added and at 20F it would like that being too slow for instant oil pressure if all is well not tolerant of a wait time.
As HT mentioned the days of just fooling with viscosities for a worn engine usually are over and even then when that cold and much colder didn't like it.
As far as a physical chain jumping and jumping back I know it can happen, that all on that tidbit. IDK why but jump and somehow back to proper spot/teeth. It just might make the diagnosis tricky if you check things when they are right or change to known proper oil totally and see if that changes everything?
T
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samg.
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Dec 20, 2014, 7:48 AM
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Re: Ford guys 3v question
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Thanks guys, I shamefully work at a ford dealer doing heavy line, but I never diag this stuff just do the work, our driveability guy refuses to do any deep engine work. This is on the side so I can;t say a lot about it at work.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2014, 10:10 AM
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TSB 06-19-12
10/02/06
DTC P0340/P0344/P0345/P0349-4.6L 3V AND 5.4L 3V
FORD:
2005-2006 Mustang
2004-2005 F-150
2005-2006 Expedition, F-Super Duty
2006 Explorer
2007 Explorer Sport Trac
LINCOLN:
2005-2006 Navigator
MERCURY:
2006 Mountaineer
This article supersedes TSB 06-2-9 to add a production fix date for Expedition and Navigator and service parts updated.
ISSUE
Some 2005-2006 F-Super Duty and Expedition/Navigator vehicles built prior to 12/14/2005 and 2004-2005 F-150 vehicles, equipped with 5.4L 3V engine, and 2005-2006 Mustang GT vehicles, equipped with 4.6L 3V engine, may exhibit a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P0340 and/or P0344; or 2006 Explorer 4dr/Mountaineer and 2007 Explorer Sport Trac vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3V engine may exhibit a DTC P0345 and/or P0349. This may be due to a malfunctioning diode or open phase connection in the generator.
ACTION
Perform a generator frequency test to diagnose cause of concern. Do not replace the generator unless a frequency test indicates a fault. This TSB provides step-by-step directions for performing a generator frequency test using the WDS oscilloscope function.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
NOTE
USING THE OSCILLOSCOPE TO MEASURE PEAK-TO-PEAK VOLTAGE IS NOT A GOOD INDICATOR OF A FAULTY GENERATOR.
NOTE
ENSURE THERE IS NO BATTERY CHARGER CONNECTED TO THE VEHICLE.
1. Ensure the connections to the battery terminals, engine grounds, and generator B+ are clean and secure.
2. Attach WDS battery cable clamps to battery/battery cables.
3. Turn on WDS.
4. Select the Toolbox Icon, (upper left of WDS screen).
5. Select Oscilloscope and then click OK.
6. Select Channel 1, Auto, Generator Ripple.
7. Select Calculations, Channel 1, Frequency.
8. Select Calculations again.
9. Push the RUN/STOP button. A waveform should display on the screen.
10. Start the vehicle and leave at idle (engine speed less than 800 RPM).
11. Turn on vehicle loads (high beams, blower set on high, heated seats, defroster, etc).
12. Examine the frequency reading on WDS.
NOTE
WDS CAN CALCULATE THE FREQUENCY AUTOMATICALLY. THE CALCULATED FREQUENCY IS LOCATED ON THE LOWER LEFT AREA OF THE OSCILLOSCOPE SCREEN. SOMETIMES THE FREQUENCY CANNOT BE CALCULATED BECAUSE THE WDS CANNOT RECOGNIZE AND MEASURE PEAK VALUES. IF THE WDS CANNOT CALCULATE THE FREQUENCY, IT WILL DISPLAY "INVALID" WHERE THE FREQUENCY READING SHOULD BE. THIS IS NORMAL IF THE RIPPLE VOLTAGE IS TOO LOW.
13. For a proper visible wave pattern, adjust the voltage scale and time scale until a good wave pattern is visible. Typically, a setting of 1mS/div and 100mV/div is a good starting point and can be adjusted as necessary.
14. Run vehicle until signal is steady. Then select the "RUN/STOP" button to freeze the waveform.
15. Determine if the generator is faulty based on frequency measurement:
NOTE
FREQUENCY IS DEPENDENT ON ENGINE RPM. PERFORM ALL TESTS AT IDLE OR FREQUENCY READINGS WILL BE INACCURATE.
a. Compare the WDS saved waveform to the sample waveforms in Figure 1. If measured ripple frequency is lower than 500 Hz, then generator is faulty and should be replaced. If generator is not faulty proceed to Step 16.
b. If frequency calculation cannot be made by WDS, it can be calculated manually. See MANUALLY CALCULATE FREQUENCY. If calculated ripple frequency is lower than 500 Hz, then generator is faulty and should be replaced. If generator is not faulty proceed to Step 16.
MANUALLY CALCULATE FREQUENCY
^ Count the number of complete voltage dips over a given range of divisions on the scope trace
^ Divide the number of voltage dips by the number of divisions to get the average voltage dips/division
^ Divide the value in Step 2 by the time scale (e.g. 1mS/div = .001 sec/division) to get frequency
NOTE
THIS METHOD OF CALCULATING FREQUENCY IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN THE METHOD USED BY WDS, SO THE FREQUENCY MEASUREMENT VS. CALCULATED MAY BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT.
16. If the frequency test does not indicate a fault with the generator, proceed with normal Powertrain Controls/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) diagnostics for the DTC. For F-Super Duty vehicles only, if the DTCs are still present after diagnostics, reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) to the latest calibration using WDS release B38.11 and higher or B39.2 and higher. Calibration files may also be obtained at the website. This new calibration is not included in the B39 CD. (DO NOT REPROGRAM EXPEDITION/NAVIGATOR, F-150, MUSTANG, EXPLORER, MOUNTAINEER OR EXPLORER SPORT TRAC).
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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