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Palo
Novice
Aug 19, 2022, 9:32 PM
Post #1 of 14
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Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Hi Everyone!
Last weekend I start my car and my brake pedal went all the way to the floor. I check the reservoir and it’s empty. I walk around the car and see all the brake fluid has come out of the rear passenger wheel. I’m thinking it’s the wheel cylinder and will pop the tire off for inspection tomorrow. I know I’ll have to bleed the lines and master cylinder. My question is, can I bleed the master cylinder without removing it if I’m using a handheld vacuum while I bleed my brakes? Or would it be easier and less time consuming if I bench bleed it? Here is my vehicle info:
2010 Nissan Versa, 1.8L, no abs.
Thanks!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 19, 2022, 9:59 PM
Post #2 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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1st take the look at what the heck went that wrong, that's unusual.
I did a quick look up for parts + yes it shows wheel cylinders for this. I didn't think there were any 2010 cars without ABS so match up the car's vin for parts when you see what went wrong.
This could go nuts with parts a whole rear brake job IDK may have a rusted out backing plate so look first.
Car is unsafe to use but you should know that. If way too rusted out somehow (could be) plan on all items for brakes if there isn't a nasty rust issue plan on that.
Bleeding master may or may not work on car or it too could be wrecked with torn pressure making rubber in bore from going so low where it doesn't normally.
What is the general rust scene with this AFTER YOU CHECK?
Some ABS or not will gravity bleed, others a pest will need a pressure bleeder.
That glance at this showed this stuff wasn't all that cheap, parts quickly in stock but again asked for VIN # make sure there's no serious rust or damage issue somehow this doesn't just happen so easily quite this new yet isn't.
If all rusted that badly this car needs a general check for what else is that bad if so could be some really bad news??
Tom
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Palo
Novice
Aug 19, 2022, 10:19 PM
Post #3 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Yes, you’re right! It does have abs. I was planning on replacing shoes, hardware, and wheel cylinders. Waiting to see what shape the drums are in before replacing. I had my front brakes done about a month ago. Yeah, I was 16 miles away from where I wanted to work on my car so just had it towed to be on the safe side. I’ll keep you posted with what I find tomorrow when I get everything off. Thanks for the quick reply!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 20, 2022, 2:48 AM
Post #4 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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I'm worried about the backing plate that holds the shoes AND the wheel cylinders in place.
Basic designs usually stop a piston of those from falling out unless backing plate can't hold them in place.
Let us know what you find and if this isn't a train wreck inside. Do both sides of an axle the same - parts and all.
More: Jury still out how well you can get brake fluid out of friction lining material might not effectively get it out even if shoes look OK wear wise. IDK if these could be adjusted drums may exceed wear there isn't a lot of metal to lose on them from normal wear,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 20, 2022, 4:59 AM
Post #5 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Something doesn't make sense about this being a wheel cylinder. They normally just don't fail that way. They nearly always give you some warning and leak slowly, not just give out totally when the car isn't being driven. the symptoms sound much more like a rusted out brake line.
Check it out a little more thoroughly before making all those plans.
Now that the brake pedal has been bottoming out the master cylinder there's a very good chance you will need a master also. Bleeding will be difficult with ABS.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Palo
Novice
Aug 20, 2022, 5:17 PM
Post #6 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Update:
I was having a hard time getting the drum off where the leak happened. It was loose, but I couldn’t get it off. My father in law took over and ended up tightening the adjusting pin all the way instead of loosening it and the drum stopped spinning (it was totally stuck). I just got a text from him saying he was able to get it loose again, going back tomorrow to discuss next steps. Here’s what I found when I took the other drum off.
- crap ton of brake dust
- gouged drum. Brakes had been bad for a long time but I didn’t have money to put into them.
I was able to get under the car to visually inspect the stuck drum that had the leak. I didn’t see any rust, backing plate looked good. No other obvious signs that point to anything wrong other than the leaking fluid.
If we can’t get the drum off tomorrow, one of his mechanic friends will take over from there. I’m also removing the master cylinder tomorrow for bleeding. I have the syringe for ms bleeding and handheld vacuum for line bleeding. The shoes, hardware and wheel cylinders I ordered won’t get here until Tuesday.
You guys are great. Thanks so much for the replies and advice. Please let me know if you think of anything else!
(This post was edited by Palo on Aug 20, 2022, 5:19 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 20, 2022, 5:24 PM
Post #7 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Sounds like the drum is all grooved out. You are going to have to back the shoes way off to get it off.
To do this you will need 2 tools, a spoon for turning the adjuster and a bent screwdriver to push the adjusting lever away from the gear so it will turn backwards.
You're going to need new drums, wheel cylinders, shoes and spring hardware.. It's all going to be torn up.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Palo
Novice
Aug 20, 2022, 6:22 PM
Post #8 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Yeah I’m not worried about saving anything in there. The only additional thing I need to order are drums. Thanks for your help, I’ll post another update tomorrow evening.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 20, 2022, 7:12 PM
Post #9 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Palo: Are there threaded holes in drum now? Those are (if there) to remove stuck drums I think 8mm X 1.25 pitch.
The parts are wasted so forget that.
Last ditch is cut if off with grinder or torches at the risk of adding a wheel bearing into this job too.
IMO - that's wild neglect - brake checks are routine apparently never done,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 21, 2022, 4:26 AM
Post #10 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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You're not at force stage yet.
That can't work without tearing the hold down pins right through the backing plate so work on getting the adjusters backed off. That's how it's supposed to be done.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 21, 2022, 4:51 AM
Post #12 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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This could be easier and cheaper with a mechanic involved.
Drums (rotors too) are really pressed onto hubs last by tightening up the wheel.
If not routinely removed or a smear of grease they get stuck like this.
Most use a threaded hole is an acting puller. If that goes all wrong or strips out last ditch is sometimes a puller. All inside would bust better if you can cut off the hold-down pin ends.
You may or may not be able to retract shoes via adjuster all that stuff would be busted.
This makes this job hard and a mess is making a lot of work to make it all right again.
Your there, I'm here not seeing the total scene heat or cutting tools become choices if and mostly only if this is a rusted mess,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 21, 2022, 6:48 AM
Post #14 of 14
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Re: Master Cylinder Bleeding
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Just FYI as rust scene isn't known totally. HT and OP, those adjusters if this is rusty enough are welded and will NOT un-adjust.
Takes the brake spoon and a small screwdriver HT already mentioned above.
It they still don't turn can be lost to use a puller and bust drum off hardware and all busted. Most if that bad would then just hang from the cable #23 shown look for the fastener should come with new hardware kit,
T
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