Took car to Midas because muffler was making bad noises. They changed a muffler pipe. In additional, they sold me a fuel injection cleaning for $100. Also, a new air filter and oil change. I went to pick up the car two hours later and it wouldn't start. They opened up the engine head (or cylinder head) after seeing the spark plugs were wet with oil ... they replaced the valve cover gaskets and cleaned the spark plugs. The car then started and drove like a dream. I wanted to double-check that it would start fine again, so I pulled over, turned the car off, waited a minute ... the car wouldn't start again. After a few tries it started, so I immediately brought it back to Midas. They used this tank and sprayed Freon on the distributor and it started immediately ... they said my distributor was bad (had a flat spot) ... I explained that I had replaced the distributor only two months ago and I've no had any problems with it. In fact, my car ran fine, except for the muffler. Since I left on Saturday, the first crank of the day to start is slow, but the it fires up with no problem. If i let it sit for several hours, it'll struggle to start the first time, but it does ... then after that, I could turn it on and off 100 times and it would start fine. I spent $834 at Midas (exhaust pipe, fuel injection cleaning, two Fusion tires, wheel rotation and balance, oil change and air filter, plus tax.

So, what happened at Midas? 1) How could oil have gotten / be getting into the cylinders? 2) Could it have anything to do with flushing the fuel-injection system? 3) Could flushing the fuel-injection system cause any independent problem that's affecting the turnover? Mechanic insists the problems are new and mysteriously and coincidentally started in his parking lot ... no fault of his. What do you all think?

Distributor Cap Duralast / Distributor Cap for a 1992 Honda Accord

Related Parts Rotor - Ignition Wireset Coil - Ignition Distributor Cap - Performance Wireset - Performance

These are just pics and may be clickable from AutoZone's site showing the distributor CAP and related parts. This is probably what was sprayed that seemed to work so well suggesting something happened to it or connections there. It's possible in all that work things got cleaned up and anything weak electrically involving spark is the trouble. Interesting that the plugs were oil soaked but if that was on the outside it isn't part of the work they did unless things were spashed all over the place in the fuel injection cleaning process. Getting your exhaust fixed shouldn't have much to do with this starting thing nor oil change, filter service.

That distrubutor cap, rotor and the wireset is vulnerable. You said you replaced the distributor - did you mean the whole item which is separate from the service items to it?

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Gotta give the place high marks for Marketing in that you went in for an exhaust noise and got all this done which is fine when you understand and agree to additional work.

I'm not there but I'd say that since this didn't even start when you went to pick it up, and then again and went right back, spray worked that they should hold some responsibility for this. Wires that are or got oiled up either when injectors were cleaned or because of a bad gasket wouldn't exactly be anyone's fault unless that just happened while there - spilled something - who can know now.

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As far as getting injectors cleaned without any indication of a problem I suggest not doing that for most folks. Instead, just use some injector cleaner in the fuel a few times a year as a prevention which should be enough. Fav is Chevron's "Techron" and I use that in fuel stored or in vehicles as a prevention measure.

Take it back yet again

T


Tom Greenleaf - MetroWest Boston - USA
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http://www.autoacsystems.com/tomgreenleaf/

"That distrubutor cap, rotor and the wireset is vulnerable. You said you replaced the distributor - did you mean the whole item which is separate from the service items to it?"

Yes, the entire distributor was replaced after the car wouldn't start ... they towed it to the garage and they informed me I needed a new distributor. They replaced the whole thing.

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. One question ... is it possible the the problem with the distributor is now correcting itself, as the car is now starting each time (although, on first turn-over it's sluggish)? Midas is pointing to a "hot spot" in the distributor and doesn't want to take responsibility for that, saying, it's purely coincidental and they didn't touch it.

I suppose I can take it to another mechanic, and if his opinion is the same as yours, I might do a credit card chargeback. I wish Midas was more responsive and responsible ...

They sort of put fear into me that I needed this extra work done. They'd have gotten me for another $1100 (their estimate) to change the timing belt, but I didn't have five hours available to leave the car to them.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks!

Ok: If it's getting better day by day now it suggest moisture is/was the problem. They sell "wire dryer" or even WD-40 is famous for helping the high voltage leaks that MAY be happening at cap and wires - connections around there.

The marketing is just intersting to me in general as I've never worked anywhere that so much as advertized - didn't need to. Suggestions for service is fine but be an aware consumer. Your owner's manual list out what intervals should be for common service items like the timing belt. If you have no known record that it has been replaced you are light years past due for a real surprise!!!!! Many engines can run like new till the big bang when those go and it's "Game Over!" for a car this old. 100k is actually pretty low for this car and the age and if not too rusty there could be lots more left in it.

Just fun - it's newer than 4 of 5 vehicles I have of my own right now!

If you are done with the Midas people then just take note of the timing belt age and get that done wherever you choose. You could get the spray mentioned and do that yourself. The fact that, that worked means it's covering up a problem that will return so note where the spray worked for tech's or yourself to decide what's the weak part - if what I'm thinking it will return when exposed to a real wet day,

T
Tom Greenleaf - MetroWest Boston - USA
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http://www.autoacsystems.com/tomgreenleaf/

Tom, thanks so much for your responses!

Question 1. Why do you think it sluggish to start the first turn-over of the day, but thereafter, it starts fine each time I turn it over?

Question 2. I'm taking it to my usual mechanic down the street (I had to go to Midas for the muffler work because my regular mechanic was closed) after speaking with him this morning. He's having me leave the car overnight so he can start it up cold in the morning, since that's when I'm having the problem. Why, though, is the problem only happening in the morning upon first start, then fine thereafter?

Question 3: If moisture is the problem, is that independent of Midas's work on the car, and it turns out to be a huge coincidence that after they worked on it, it wouldn't start? I don't want to go after them with a chargeback if they're innocent. But, if they mishandled in some way and were not careful, I think they should be responsible for repairs.

Question 4: You're saying it's covering up a problem that will return ... I could get the spray as you suggested, but do you think I should get it repaired once and for all? Would that mean replacing the wires ... how much do you guess that would cost?

Thanks for all your help with the timing belt and everything! It's amazing that my car is newer than some of your cars, ha! Those cars are LUCKY to have you!!

Cheers,
Eve

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Thoughts below in bold type......My wild guessing only - not proof of anything..... Tom, thanks so much for your responses!

Question 1. Why do you think it sluggish to start the first turn-over of the day, but thereafter, it starts fine each time I turn it over? I think injectors got trashed by cleaning them and they are leaking down flooding the engine now! Quick restarts would probably be fine - left a while it floods. They weren't broke and shouldn't have been touched. Possibly made a big mess in doing the job - hey - wild guess!

Question 2. I'm taking it to my usual mechanic down the street (I had to go to Midas for the muffler work because my regular mechanic was closed) after speaking with him this morning. He's having me leave the car overnight so he can start it up cold in the morning, since that's when I'm having the problem. Why, though, is the problem only happening in the morning upon first start, then fine thereafter? A regular mechanic you get familiar with is always best - tell the whole story.

Question 3: If moisture is the problem, is that independent of Midas's work on the car, and it turns out to be a huge coincidence that after they worked on it, it wouldn't start? I don't want to go after them with a chargeback if they're innocent. But, if they mishandled in some way and were not careful, I think they should be responsible for repairs.Let your own mechic suggest what to do. A chargeback is not nice and perhaps you can just talk it out when YOUR mechanic can or even will say that a problem was caused by the work. Your sunk without the second opinion. My own means nothing as I'm not there and don't know any of you.

Question 4: You're saying it's covering up a problem that will return ... I could get the spray as you suggested, but do you think I should get it repaired once and for all? Would that mean replacing the wires ... how much do you guess that would cost? The engine probably got washed with something water based and moisture sprays are like waxy repellants and displace water which re-routes the electrical sparks to unwanted directions. That spray will wear out and is not a fix but a temp way to get it going.

Thanks for all your help with the timing belt and everything! It's amazing that my car is newer than some of your cars, ha! Those cars are LUCKY to have you!! Oldest will be 61 Model years old soon! Still runs as new! It's a 1948. Laugh - got it from Grandfather who never owned anything new (guess I'm a chip off his block) - he got it used in 1956---- I've had it since the 60s. Suffice it to say you don't want to sell lifetime warranties to me for my vehicles! You should see the looks I get when I go back 20 years later with the same vehicles! There's an 88 as new, 89 getting better all the time, one for parts that runs well, and I broke down and got a truck 1997! Too new for my taste but I do like the thing

Cheers,
Eve Have a great day, Tom
Tom Greenleaf - MetroWest Boston - USA
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http://www.autoacsystems.com/tomgreenleaf/

Thank you so much for your help and time, and especially hearing about your cars!

I'll post back tomorrow to let you know what my regular mechanic says.