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ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 2:01 PM
Post #1 of 26
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ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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Hi, i have a 1989 f-150,6 cyl, 5 speed manual trans,dual fuel tanks
my problem is that the truck starts and runs for 1 or so mins than shuts down,
here's what i've done replaced: low pressure pumps in both tanks ,new front tank,new hi pressure pump in frame rail, new distributor modjail, rotor,cap,wires, new coil, new fuel relays,new oil pressure shut off sender, sea foam in both fuel tanks.
engine starts,fuel pressure @ the rail is 42 psi, runs 1 or so min that pressure falls to 12 psi eng stops, won't start for about 1\2 hour or so,than same thing.
any one know anything else i can do?
Thanks,truckerkit
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 2:31 PM
Post #2 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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You need to do some more testing.
Do this complete battery of tests.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 3:38 PM
Post #3 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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Hi,
I have spark at plugs , as stated replaced cap rotor al plug wires,plugs, modgell in distributor, and new coil. spark is blue\white and will travel though air to ground over 1& 1\2 inch. seams very strong now.
injectors, test with noild light. also blinks as running.
fuel pressure as i also stated is approx 42 psi, even running, but starts to drop down just before eng quits a about 12 psi.
if you try starting right away, it won't have any fuel pressure. but if you wait maybe 1 hour than it will start and all of the above happen the same.
the truck as sat out side in all weather for years after my dad pasted away. i'm a long distance truck driver\old time mech. i only am able to drive the truck short distances went i get back home once a month or so. home is Midwest Illinois.
i have added SEA Foam to both fuel tanks.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 3:43 PM
Post #4 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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Was the injector pulse and the spark tested during the period when it wouldn't start?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 3:51 PM
Post #5 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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yes,when eng wouldn't start spark was still great,
power present at inj's . no fuel pressure at fuel rail.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 3:53 PM
Post #6 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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It wasn't power I was looking for at the injectors. It was trigger pulse.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 3:59 PM
Post #7 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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i've also hot wired the frame rail fuel pump and tested pressure, no pressure present at fuel rail,after shuts down. pump in frame runs but don't build pressure. i don't want to bypass the safety, i only want to see if it showed pressure after eng died, removed hot wire after testing hi pressure pump!
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:03 PM
Post #8 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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trigger pluse was there during the cranking of the engine along with the spark to the plugs
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:03 PM
Post #9 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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? Truck sat for years. Unless reading this wrong it's fine with fuel pressure then drops off to where it wouldn't run so the question is what could cause that?
I bet this is wildly soaked with water in the tanks - either and it settles low enough then just gets stirred up from running and takes down a common fuel filter to both and somehow takes time to settle back to where it can work again for just so long.
Should be easy enough to take fuel filter out right after it shows that 12 PSI pressure quickly and dump it into a clean glass jar from inlet side and take a good look.
Combo of rust color to plain fine clay of rust and possible to likely water will settle to bottom.
I'd have to rule that out now with that history. If so I think I'd pick the primary tank only and clean or replace it OR dang do both.
Gas nor the vehicle's tanks can sit that long with fuel in them at all,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:17 PM
Post #10 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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OK, you're going to have to systematically see where you have pressure and where you don't and where you are losing electrical if that is what you find. I'm giving you the wiring diagrams for dual tanks.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:25 PM
Post #11 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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both tanks have been dropped and the front replaced last fall, new tank in front, both tanks had new pumps in stalled in them before put back up in truck.
last week i put a can of sea foam in each tank rear one was empty and poured 8 gallons of fresh( bought that day) front tank was almost full and after full can of sea foam would only hold about 2 gallons of gas replaced the new filter that was put in line after the tanks were done,last fall.
the new filter was put in two days ago.
i also changed the pressure switch on the side of the engine, and fuel relays, at the same time.
i have taken the dash selector switch apart and cleaned the contacts increased the spring tension on them (only because NAPA can get a new one). my battery voltage is a constant 13.2 volts through all this and was also replaced last fall.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:41 PM
Post #12 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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I'm stuck on this being from bad fuel even with all that. Just dump the gas out of the fuel filter but you will need new clips available.
This is possibly going ping/pong with what's new and what already got wrecked then wrecks something new. HT is right on to find what the fuel pressure is where but I don't really know how easy that is to do except at fuel filter WHEN it quits not before that so you'd have to be fast or see the problem.
Icky problem if so. Socks to fuel pick up in tanks could be part messed up, pumps starved possible new or not they need to be wet with fuel.
It seems electrically all there so what else could do this? Bad fuel got into that filter if it was two minutes old could fail in some cases. This is a mess to totally correct if my guess is right and it's just my guess based on the time it sat,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:46 PM
Post #13 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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OK Tom, if you want to deal with this you can finish. It's way too confusing for both of us to be giving advice here.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 4:53 PM
Post #14 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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Please answer this?
can i put a longer hose on the hi pressure pump before the filter pump all full from the tanks( dry) that way all lines ,tanks ,and pumps are purged. i than replace the filter again with a new one hook all back up and retry?
or do you think the pumps my suffer or fail in this?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 5:00 PM
Post #15 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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As said I'm just nailed with bad fuel as recent as two hours ago on a neighbor's generator! Bad fuel will evap out everything useful and leave the junk which will be found or highly likely right at the fuel filter common to either tank and so easy to check and rule out it would be first on my list with those symptoms. If not it still has to be found out what and why that's all,
Tom
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 5:03 PM
Post #16 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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thanks, the inertia switch in the second wiring diagram
( center top ) opens on contact!
is this the switch that is on the firewall inside the cab by the emeg brae cable on the left of the clutch?
has a button on the top?
can i cheack it with a volt \ohmm, meter , and was shoud i be looking for in reads?
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truckerkit
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Apr 13, 2014, 5:19 PM
Post #17 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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before we go on! i want to thank both of you Men, Hammer time and Tom Greenleaf, for taking the time to help this old guy out i really needed some more help! and may continue till it's back up and running, thanks ever so much!!!!!!
the truck was Dads last one before passing on. or i'd probably have gotten rid of it long ago, just can't seem to let the old girl go yet ,only has 43,000 on her!
She may out last me who knows i'm close to 70but still drive and work on big truck.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 13, 2014, 5:20 PM
Post #18 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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The only Ford inertia switches I know of for that vintage would be a red button to push to reset if it popped. So far never found one to only let thru improper current. If you must rule it out just jump it but only while testing then put it back right.
Not sure where the thing is for trucks but the idea is to shut down ALL fuel pressure not partly and you get 12PSI unless somehow that can remain and can't think of a way it would but also not watching you test pressures.
To get back on track as this isn't a head game just answer how long did this sit under what conditions? Outdoors, indoors and how long?
Re the pumps: They don't like running dry - that's known. But most would just quit or stay poor not this time out then work but it's possible I guess??
FYI - regulars here are from all over the place with different experiences. I'm a relentless old phart and newest car just happens to be a 1989. Oldest vehicle that runs fine with a fight is 66 years old back when fuel ran thru a glass bowl and you could see when to dump out the water and rust! It was routine for then and would be handy right now as you could just look and not test a dang thing.
Keep trying. I totally apologize if I'm confusing what I really think is your trouble,
Tom
T
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car1104
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Apr 13, 2014, 8:26 PM
Post #19 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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If the starting tests are good, disconnect the catalytic converter. This would rule out a exhaust line plug all the way back.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 14, 2014, 2:43 AM
Post #21 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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car1104: It's dropping fuel pressure too low to run. Doesn't matter about exhaust anything if inadequate fuel pressure to run at all. At the age you do consider anything that could happen ruling things out.
Unless misreading it runs cold and pressure is good then drops off. Electrical, fuel issue itself clogging up unknown yet. Cool down time it comes back and runs so something is time and temp sensitive. So far not consistent with a backpressure of exhaust issue IMO,
T
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 14, 2014, 4:53 AM
Post #22 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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truckerkit
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Apr 14, 2014, 12:02 PM
Post #23 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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Hey guys,
anyone know what the plastic box in frame behind the hi\press pump is? it has what looks like a filter wrench removing tool to open on bottom?
Also were i can get a (Ford)Part #E7TZ9B263A it's a plastic tank control switch. I think it works to control which tank the vel runs from.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 14, 2014, 12:37 PM
Post #24 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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? Fuel tank selector valve? Does it look like this?
.........
WAG (Wild ars guess) that it would be there anyway,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 14, 2014, 1:01 PM
Post #25 of 26
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Re: ford f-150 shuts down after a min or so
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That should be a filter with a cover over it.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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