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Brakes keep adjusting all the way out.


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CookieKC
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Nov 9, 2012, 12:57 PM

Post #1 of 24 (1903 views)
Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

1998 GMC Sierra 4WD He's changed everything in the rear brake drums except the cylinder. The brakes keep adjusting all the way out until the brakes lock up. Any ideas? It's driving him nuts. Thanks in advance.


Hammer Time
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Nov 9, 2012, 5:06 PM

Post #2 of 24 (1869 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Is this happening on both wheels?



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Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 10, 2012, 4:31 AM

Post #3 of 24 (1857 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Almost certain star adjusters are on wrong sides. Plain set up. Backing up will turn the adjuster if motion of rear shoe allows when applying brakes. If star adjuster which is reverse threaded on one side is reversed it would continue to adjust going forward all the time and likely over adjust.

Other is parking cable is just not retracting or improper installation of the brakes + hardware,

T


Hammer Time
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Nov 10, 2012, 4:43 AM

Post #4 of 24 (1850 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

I would expect it to losoen up the brakes if the adjuster are on the wrong sides. The adjuster wheels will still be turning in the same direction but the thread will be shortening instead of lengthening the adjuster shaft



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Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 10, 2012, 5:46 AM

Post #5 of 24 (1842 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Same idea for ages on these I think. Star is saw toothed to grab with adjusting arm one way and slip the other such that they don't extend adjustment in forward braking but just hop over the teeth. If reversed they would if all wrong side continue to adjust in forward braking till they about locked up, smoked, wreck the whole show. Have fixed ones done wrong and surprised that I never messed up a set over all the zillions I did.

I have no doubt if this is too confusing to just get manual adjusters and take out the lever and just do them manually periodically but it's unnecessary as they work pretty good as designed. Usually they begin to fail to self adjust with the lever getting dull or star isn't free to turn.

Pretty universal and adjusters should be marked as shown......

Common GM style in this......


Shoe with more lining towards rear always. Hard to see in that pic the bar between yellow rear return spring and green front spring has an anti-rattle spring on it. Quick test for cable retracting fully when properly adjusted and nobody messed with park cable adjustment is that bar will move toward front by finger and compress that oval spring showing it can anchor shoes up top where they should. If park bar is jammed and shoes can't return to top anchor you are lost to adjust anything that will work for crap.

Somehow this "erector set" technology confuses many then and now. Brakes are asymmetrically opposite left or right with almost no exceptions.

Plain non self adjuster looked like this........


No big deal you just did it yourself thru back or thru drum slot.

That's just the mechanical at wheel. If the fluid pressure can't return for any reason back to master cylinder that would be a problem but wouldn't make the adjuster move.

HT - not out of my cave yet. Haven't owned anything with rear disc brakes yet and hope I never have toCrazy Tons more troubles with those than this for rust issues. Both suffer if so.

IMO drum brake drums should be pulled off with every tire rotation, dust dumped out and checked every time,

T


Hammer Time
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Nov 10, 2012, 5:54 AM

Post #6 of 24 (1835 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

This truck doesn't even use that kind of adjuster. It uses an upper adjuster and the teeth are tapered in a manor that it cannot be turned backwards.





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Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 10, 2012, 6:17 AM

Post #7 of 24 (1830 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

May be looking at another format of "Sierra" that I don't know of. Full size C/Ks show this for adjuster hardware about the same as 1959!



Your parts show more like a mid to light duty vehicle or perhaps a mid-year change?? I think the style in your parts is adjusted by setting parking brake??

T


Hammer Time
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Nov 10, 2012, 6:54 AM

Post #8 of 24 (1823 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

The picture I posted is for a 1500. He's never stated what size this truck is an obviously they have different braking systems for different GVWs



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Discretesignals
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Nov 10, 2012, 8:30 AM

Post #9 of 24 (1818 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Maybe if he/she took pictures of his/her brakes and uploaded them onto a video hosting site and then put the link in here, that would help determine what is going on.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 10, 2012, 8:31 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 10, 2012, 8:54 AM

Post #10 of 24 (1812 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Need to know. Of so few I still do is both a 1/2 and 3/4 ton and both are same style, different sizes only. I just didn't think GM was messing with crap about then too much. Try Fords for 1977 only. Monarch, Grenada, Continental TC had rear discs either std or optional - I think just that exact year! I can't even prove it was the entire model year?

T


CookieKC
New User

Nov 13, 2012, 7:05 PM

Post #11 of 24 (1780 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Thanks so much did responding. I'll forward this to him and hopefully he'll figure it out. I know we left out some details...... I'll be sure to fill you guys in on what happens. Thanks, again.


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 14, 2012, 4:30 AM

Post #12 of 24 (1771 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Please let us know what was discovered. It would be unusual for both without something backwards or perhaps some parking brake issue that could involve both - T


CookieKC
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Nov 17, 2012, 5:57 PM

Post #13 of 24 (1749 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Tom, you hit the nail on the head! It was the emergency brake. It seized. He never uses it, but it was edged forward just enough to foul things up. Once it was disconnected, the brakes went on properly and problem solved. Thanks a million! He has peace of mind, finally. Smile


Discretesignals
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Nov 17, 2012, 6:10 PM

Post #14 of 24 (1745 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Tom you know







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


CookieKC
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Nov 17, 2012, 7:29 PM

Post #15 of 24 (1740 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Lol. Right on, Disc. And thanks to everyone who contributed. All of you guys are awesome. Tongue


Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 18, 2012, 2:02 AM

Post #16 of 24 (1725 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Glad it was found. Yes, we can get funny here but it's serious stuff. Parking, aka "Emergency" brakes need to be used and checked periodically for proper operation. There are no known exceptions to me, all parking brakes are 100% mechanical such that about any other failure of the vehicle it can stay still.

Lack of use seems to cause more problems than routine use. Good luck with the fix. Even those can be a pest to get just right,

T


Hammer Time
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Nov 18, 2012, 5:33 AM

Post #17 of 24 (1717 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In


Quote
all parking brakes are 100% mechanical such that about any other failure of the vehicle it can stay still.


You mean except for the electric ones



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Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 18, 2012, 5:46 AM

Post #18 of 24 (1710 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

I'm not talking about any automatic release of a brake. Parking brakes must operate by non electric or hydraulic means such that they will not give out just because of failed electrical power, engine, trans or other total failures. Anything can fail but vehicles don't fly away unattended because a battery croaks,

T


Hammer Time
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Nov 18, 2012, 5:58 AM

Post #19 of 24 (1703 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In


Quote
I'm not talking about any automatic release of a brake. Parking brakes must operate by non electric or hydraulic means such that they will not give out just because of failed electrical power, engine, trans or other total failures.



OH really? I guess you haven't worked on a VW, Audi and quite a few others recently.

Why don't you Google "Electronic Parking Brake"



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 18, 2012, 8:17 AM

Post #20 of 24 (1689 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

1998 GMC Sierra 4WD was the vehicle.

However an automated one is applied or released they are made also do either without electrical, vacuum, hydraulic or flaming magic what makes it lock must be mechanical. If that can't release totally or in full due to those items failing anywhere there will be troubles with any style. Disc brakes themselves don't require adjustment for service use if on parking brake wheels but cables, rods, levers to actuate cams, mini drums inside do end up needing repair.

This vehicle has drum brakes using same shoes for either and if anchoring on parking brake parts instead of top anchor bolt brakes are never going to behave properly for either function,

T


Hammer Time
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Nov 18, 2012, 9:59 AM

Post #21 of 24 (1681 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

all parking brakes are 100% mechanical such that about any other failure of the vehicle it can stay still. was the statement made


You're debating me about a system that you have never even seen Tom

Here are the pad replacement instruction for the rear of a Passat

PS, the VAS 5051 they refer to is the factory scan tool.



Removing

When removing, mark brake pads that will be used again. Install in the same position, otherwise braking effect will be uneven!

¤ Do not disconnect the connectors from the parking brake motors. ¤ Electro-mechanical parking brake not actuated.
  • Remove wheels.

The pistons on the electro-mechanical parking brake must be driven back using the (VAS 5051).

Before pressing piston back, draw off brake fluid from reservoir using a bleeder bottle. Otherwise, especially if reservoir has been topped off, fluid will overflow and cause damage.

  • (VAS 5051), connecting and selecting functions => [ VAS 5051, Connecting and Selecting Functions ]
  • Select the electro-mechanical parking brake and the function Moving piston of parking brake motor out and in.
  • Drive the pistons back using the (VAS 5051).
  • Then, remove the bolts from the brake caliper, while counter-holding the guide pins.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Nov 18, 2012, 10:59 AM

Post #22 of 24 (1674 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

HT - Take a pill. If you want to put VW Passat parts on a 98, 3/4 ton GM truck have at it

This problem was found already so let's quit badgering it,

Tom


Hammer Time
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Nov 18, 2012, 12:01 PM

Post #23 of 24 (1667 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

You're the one that made the incorrect statement in the first place and then wanted to debate it. Maybe you should take the pill.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Nov 18, 2012, 12:26 PM

Post #24 of 24 (1662 views)
Re: Brakes keep adjusting all the way out. Sign In

Now boys, play nice. You both can share.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.






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