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83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum


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Points & Condenser
User

May 21, 2011, 6:41 PM

Post #1 of 8 (8434 views)
83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

Hey guys, thought maybe someone can shed advice. I am trying to remove the rear drum on my Box Truck. I am sure it would be the same as a F350 Dually Pickup. I have removed the two wheels but I'm not sure if the Drum can come off by removing the rust around the hub or do I have to remove the hub bolts? Is ther a clip and nut under the hub that needs to come out to pull the drum or is that just to pull the axel? Part two of the question, can I hammer out a couple of broken wheel studs and replace them or does this require a machine shop to press them out and press in new ones?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 21, 2011, 7:37 PM

Post #2 of 8 (8409 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

(NOTE - THIS POST WAS CONFUSED WITH ANOTHER WITH SIMILAR USER NAME WHO IS A MODERATOR HERE AND HIGHLY SKILLED SO SUGGESTIONS APPLY BUT WAS THINKING OF SOMEONE WHO WOULD KNOW HOW TO USE THINGS LIKE OXY/ACET TORCHES AS A LAST RESORT AND READERS IN GENERAL PROBABLY SHOULDN'T UNLESS QUITE FAMILIAR WITH USE OF THEM! READER USE ALL SAFETY MEASURES IF YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER SUCH EXTREMES OR GET HELP - SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION, TOMG)

Damn RT - what a HUGE drum!



I couldn't find any tricky clips or retainer listed for this and one of these monsters wouldn't fit in any shop I've ever had so zero on dually trucks for experience. Brake inside looked typical like Ford drum brakes of the vintage.

Here in wonderful Rusto-Chusetts rust is the name of the game. Guess - by looks sideways above striking it isn't putting that force on the centering hole like it does on the smaller or more regular brake drum. I'd try PB, file off rust, gasket scrape rust, strike from behind if possible and could end up heating it with oxy/acet to glowing right at center - just the drum. Puller may help if you have one that big. Prying probably won't help much - guesses as I never deal with and never did deal with stuff this big,

Tom



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on May 22, 2011, 4:49 AM)


Points & Condenser
User

May 21, 2011, 7:54 PM

Post #3 of 8 (8400 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

Thanks Tom, so as far as you know there is nothing but a lot of rust and the wheel studs that hold the drum on? If I get it to move but it binds I will look into the shoes binding on the ridge and know how to move the star wheel but right now it is solid. I just didn't know how much to beat on it until I knew nothing else is holding it back except the rust. Do you know if the broken wheel studs need to be pressed on and off at a machine shop? I am hoping to do this in my garage once I get the drum off the truck. All this started with an inside flat tire, what a nightmare.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 22, 2011, 4:43 AM

Post #4 of 8 (8390 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

First off - I confused you with one of our own regular techs with very similar user name. No matter - let's carry on. The common stuck area is center hole to hub. The flat part of hub with the studs between hub and drum should not stick the drum on or doesn't when I find that.

Because of the confusion and I apologize don't use torches unless you really know how to use them and target just what you want them to do and only on the exact part(s) - I wouldn't be suggesting use of oxy/acet unless I knew you knew how to use that as a tool.

Stuck star adjuster isn't surprising. All that hardware should be available and if hopelessly worn, rusted or destroyed just get new ones. Make sure they are well lubed as some of those get so stuck that even a vise and pipe wrench didn't free them up. If you want it to self adjust the integrity of both the star wheel's barbs AND the arm that turns it is critical or it will quit self adjusting. No harm if you don't mind periodically just doing it manually. Just remember there are left and right side ones - usually marked.

Once you can get drum to rock at all you'll win even if hardware breaks to finish getting it off. I've had to cut off the back side of hold-down spring "nails" I'm calling them - pins might be the more operative word. and just let what happens, happen and pull it off then fix what else might have broken. For the cost of new hardware unless it comes off and looks great could save you another headache if a part falls down or breaks it most likely will trash the brake.

You'll get there somehow and keep trying. Many trucks, dually or not suggest really torquing lugs nuts as should be done with about any of them but seems more of an issue with trucks.

I'll leave my first reply to this but edit to show I confused you with a very high end tech we call RT by nick-name. Good luck with the battle with this,

T



Points & Condenser
User

May 22, 2011, 7:21 AM

Post #5 of 8 (8378 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

Tom, sorry for the confusion I noticed that "Re-Tired" was a moderator after I had already set up my user name of Retired (without the dash) but just so there won't be any confusion in the future I changed my name to "Points & Condenser" that should age me a bit. I am comfortable with an Ox & Ac Torch that is how I got the lugs off. I just wanted to make sure all that was holding the drum was rust before I went wild with a sledge. I have a Haynes Book but they don't tell you what you need to know all the time like a shop manual would. You can call me Points & Condenser or PC, John, or one who breaks things. I should hang up my wrenches but I like the challenge. I admit I have trouble trusting someone else with my toys. I might be slow but I am thorough. PC


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 22, 2011, 9:36 AM

Post #6 of 8 (8374 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

That mix up was my mistake not yours. As the site grows there will be similar user names - plain my fault.

OK: Let's move on. If you know how to use Oxy/acet then you should know you can heat a little or cut metal right off. Rusted things you can't even recognize while glowing pretty much don't break to remove like exhaust things - either remove while glowing or cut them right off. You should be able to target exactly where what will happen using them such that only the item giving you fits and not harm anything around the item.

Ex: Not good around fuel lines if close and so on.

Know that hardened metal that's meant to be like lug nuts and other stuff around vehicles once glowing is no longer the rating of hardness. By rights those should be replaced with new now. If reused if you see one fall off it's your warning.

My guess is with a brake drum (haven't used heat yet as other things worked) could be heated (last resort) and the hub would be hot but not glowing and if familiar as with exhaust stuff if you pass glowing you can melt the item. If good you can cut slip over and clamped pipes and cut only the inside metal or outside metal leaving the other alone that you want to keep.

Again - no experience with the dual wheels but have the basic idea. By looks of the drum striking it just isn't getting the shock value of a common one by looking at the pic.

Id still play with PB (power blaster brand penetrating oil) , file down exposed hub and use gasket scraper to remove corrosion.

Plain hard use with a sledge doesn't thrill me for the damage that can cause with parts for reuse as it very well could distort even a very HD drum like this one. This deal just to get at inside wheel has a high chance of cause mandatory brake work and since you are there might just do the hardware and fix or replace adjuster(s) and do both sides so you'll be at it again with the other side.

I have a habit of smearing some silicone grease (very water wash out resistant) on those parts that cause this problem. Use your head to not allow too much or in areas that could mess with friction material (shoes/pads, drum surface and rotor surfaces) when doing so. With star adjusters if you get them to turn off the truck clean up the threads and just enough brake lube so they have a chance to work again or go new. If there's a huge ridge on the drum turn it or you'll battle every time to remove drum if only to dump brake dust out which I also do routinely and would be a super pest if they didn't just come off without tools at all never mind the dual wheels.

Keep at it. What you do now will make it easier anytime you need to go back there again. Good luck,

T



Points & Condenser
User

May 22, 2011, 6:08 PM

Post #7 of 8 (8363 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

Tom and anyone else who might learn from this thread. I'm out of the woods and shouldn't have any problems from here on. To pull the drum on a dually you need to pull the Axel. 8 Bolts on the center hub and then slide it out, not surprising it's a little heavy. Put the axel aside and keep it clean. Inside the center hub at 12 O'clock there is a keyway and a small clip. Try to remove the clip with a needle nose, you may want to clean some of the grease with an acid brush and a little solvent. I removed the clip easily but I can see that it could be a another story if it is really stuck. Also when you do remove it it will look like 1 side of the clip is broken, (it is not) I searched for the piece with the fear that a small broken piece of metal could end up in the wheel bearings or differential, not the greatest thought. I was relieved to see the clip in a diagram and it only has one side. Next, you are going to need a large socket with a thin wall (about 2 1/2") or if you are carefull you may be able to do what I did and take a small chisel near one of the spindle nut's points and tap the nut ccw to loosen and remove. The spindle nut has a nylon ring attached to provide some resistance so the nut will not move too freely but if there is a fair amount of lube you should be able to turn it and once the nylon ring clears the last thread of the spindle you will be able to turn it by hand the rest of the way. Once the nut is off you can pull out the outer wheel bearing and washer and then your drum should slide out by rocking it side to side and up and down. If it binds on the brake shoes you can use a brake spoon (or thin blade screwdriver) to back off on the star wheel adjuster. Pop out the rubber rectangular plug on the bottom of the backing plate this is on the inside below the leaf spring and housing. Look in the slot with a mag light and you will see the toothed wheel, depending on which side of the vehicle turning it one way will start to loosen and that will move the brake shoes in to allow more clearance. Your drum should now pass the ridge a slide off. Keep the weight off the rear seal when you get to the end of the spindle or you may tear the rubber on the seal. Clean and inspect all moving parts and springs, sparingly lube all moving parts with Brake lube or white lithium grease. Wipe off any over lube so that it does not get on the shoes or braking surfaces. Reassemble and slightly pack the inner and outer wheel bearings with grease and tighten the spindle nut until a slight drag is felt and then back off slightly, tap in the retaining clip. Using your brake spoon or other tool turn the star wheel until you can't spin the drum and then back off utill it feels like it is touching slightly but you can turn the drum without too much effort. Hope that helps the rest of you with those E or F350's with the Duallys. PS. I had to heat every one of the lug nuts to remove them and broke three studs. I recommend changing all of them for safety and piece of mind.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 23, 2011, 12:12 PM

Post #8 of 8 (8348 views)
Re: 83 Ford E350 Dually, remove rear drum Sign In

Thanks for the update and info. A great archive for others too. Glad you tended to studs and lug nuts and not sure what the protocol is for how many broken means total replacement is suggested for HD trucks but new should be safe,

T







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