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2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 16, 2016, 2:41 PM
Post #1 of 24
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2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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I bought a 2000 S10 that was only supposed to need a donut gasket, but it turns out to need more than a few other things. The lines appear to be pretty bad, and I bought a fuel line repair kit to hotfix the issue, but it appears as though there's not going to be any way to put it on because there's no room to cut the line. Additionally, the surrounding lines look pretty bad, so I was thinking that it's going to be futile to replace the one line without replacing all the others.
The trans also started leaking from the front, which I would supposed is the radiator line, and the just recently began leaking from under the pan. Now, I had already decided that I was going to flush the Transmission fluid and replace the filter, which if I'm not mistaken should fix the leak from the pan. Am I correct? The leak from front though seems to be more comprehensive, and I've tried to pull the line off and re-attach it, to tighten the line up hoping that it would fix the issue, but it doesn't seem to have helped any.
Here are some pictures to elaborate on the scope of the problem.
http://i.imgur.com/8qQ7KlD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lUy2iWq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oZjBXpM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pW2pW6H.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4eWps2z.jpg
Please let me know what you think.
(This post was edited by Grasshoppaaa on Apr 16, 2016, 4:22 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Apr 16, 2016, 4:09 PM
Post #2 of 24
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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I'm afraid I have a bunch of bad news for you. Those likes are gas lines and one of them is high pressure. You are going to have to get nearly all of the lines replaced and that is going to e a big ordeal to do.
As far as changing your trans fluid, yes you would probably stop any pan leak, if in fact that is the actual leak. the bad news is if this truck has a lot of miles on it, the transmission could die in the process.
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(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 16, 2016, 4:09 PM)
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 16, 2016, 4:18 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Nope, the truck only has 114,000 miles on it so that's about the service time for the Transmission fluid anyways. As I said, it was on the service list that I had prepared to bring the health of the truck up to grade. I already have the filter, which I believe includes the pan gasket. The only thing I have yet to get for that job is the transmission fluid, but I was waiting on figuring out the front leak and fixing that before changing the transmission fluid and filter.
As for the fuel lines, I had figured all the lines would need to be replaced, and there's no way I can replace them, because I'm pretty sure the jobs requires a lift and I don't have one—nor do I have any experience with the job (which I understand it not a simple job). What do you think the estimate is going to be on that job? How much would the lines be? Would I be able to get them at the salvage yard—and what would the estimated price be from there?
(This post was edited by Grasshoppaaa on Apr 16, 2016, 4:20 PM)
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Hammer Time
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Apr 16, 2016, 4:34 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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No, you can't. All those lines have to be custom fabricated by the person doing the job. You can't remove or install a complete line without lifting the body and the bed off the truck so they have to be bent and flared as they are installed and will be done in sections and joined by screw together unions. Compression fittings are illegal to use. This is not something you should attempt yourself. It's a hard job for even a very experienced tech.
As far as the transmission is concerned, you need to check the condition of the fluid first. If the fluid is burnt and dirty, changing it can do a lot of harm, even with that mileage.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 16, 2016, 4:55 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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The fluid is pretty vivid red. It doesn't look burnt or dirty. It was a service truck, so other than the truck sitting on the grass for awhile, I would imagine it was well taken care of. I was asking about the price. What would it cost to have those lines replaced?
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Hammer Time
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Apr 16, 2016, 5:02 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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I can't tell you how bad the truck is. It is very time consuming, I can tell you that much. You are probably looking at at least 3 to 4 hours labor and $50-$60 in parts.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 16, 2016, 11:56 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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My 2 cents on lines and such:
Just copied one picture speaks volumes. That's about impossible to undo that fuel filter without new lines made up - just that and you know all other lines, transmission, brakes, fuel lines and the evap lines, oil coolers for engine, trans, PS - all of it in question or to be made up new as Hammer Time said. You don't buy this stuff pre-made ready to just put in - you make it from plain stock parts and flare where needed and DON'T use compression fitting as he said and will add don't use copper either.
It's a labor issue and can be loads of it. Take a peek not just at the assorted lines but the holders for them to keep them in place. Those will usually bust off as well and mandatory lines be supported or they'll rattle/shake/rub all wrong creating leaks in new lines if not done well.
There will be sections that will be fine and whole sections that are not.
How much time and cost is impossible to quote despite your great pics,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 17, 2016, 7:58 AM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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No - it really isn't that simple to fix. Your pic if it shows below.....
Between that pic and others I see rubber hose and a worm clamp not OE you or another may have done to fix this already.
How fast is it leaking? I see the pic with a catch pan under it suggests it's an active leak which if you cleaned off the area would when dry show up exactly where the source is.
Leaks up front like that in this layout of drivetrain will usually be the highest and most forward that shows the leaking fluid.
Notice you said you did oil pan gasket job which is rarely the leak unless a problem right away from doing it.
So - you are doing well with pics of the problem but need to clean if off as said if by hand and towels and watch it come back.
This isn't going to end there unfortunately rusted lines are a plain PITA mixed with rubber sometimes as required and much less preferred for a fix for where they were metal only to spec - hose must be rated and if molded will be a problem or OE hose if that.
Top post you mentioned "donut" gasket? Did you mean an exhaust leak? If you are spitting nasty hot exhaust at rubber anything that's trouble on its own up to plain wildly dangerous for fire oil and of course if fuel.
All those lines, whatever they carry are going to have to be fixed for the length it takes to connect to good line or as far as it goes if needed.
So true - not always a good place to cut line so you go to where you can.
The question is now are you up to this? Take some practice to make flares to unions or what is needed where and bent to dang close to what it was not to rub or wobble around at all either.
It's fussy work, tight spots and here and there a not so easy to find flare nut to item or change in threads you save old or find new as seen in front of you while doing all this.
If not up to it with really not all the expensive for tools send it out. Techs do this all the time and IMO have the right to charge a time actually taken not some book listed time all within reason and a tech that has the tools and has the experience this is one day stuff (should be) for all areas in trouble if leaking now or not do them now.
What do you want to do and think you are able to do?
I think the fix is going to end with the answer to that,
T
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Hammer Time
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Apr 17, 2016, 8:02 AM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Those pictures don't do much for seeing the source of the leak but it seems to be associated with the power steering system, probably one of the hoses or maybe the steering box itself.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 17, 2016, 8:35 AM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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HT - Was thinking the rubber hose would MORE likely be the return line for PS as you said. If leaking at some rate must be showing low fast? It at box and not just line seals not recommended by me for this and now talking some parts bucks? We don't know.
OP - Clean it off somehow. If you spray or soak rags in carb cleaner or can wash it with grease removing solvent and a hose without really making problems (watch out washing things with water) do so and watch it leak. That's primary for an initial fix then buys time to decide what you are going to do as this needs to be attended to, T
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 17, 2016, 11:06 AM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Well, I don't have any experience with any of it, but looking for the best guess was going to tell me if I could potentially wing it or not. The fuel lines are obviously outside of my potential, as I don't have the tools for the job. Power Steering was something I had not thought of, but probably isn't the issue since the fluid smells like Transmission fluid.
Secondly, I never changed the oil pan gasket. I simply changed the oil itself, the oil filter, and replaced the air filter. I have some new spark plugs and wires to put in still, which I should be able to do myself, but wanted to solve these more comprehensive issues first—starting with the fuel lines.
I can't say exactly what the exhaust leak is—if it's a manifold leak or otherwise—because the tech who sold me the truck wasn't very descriptive about it. All I know is that it's loud, it needs a "donut" gasket, and from what I understand that could be in one of two places, but I don't know which place it is specifically. However, it does seem like a really simple—unfasten, replace, refasten job. But what do you think?
As for cleaning off the undercarriage, it is an active leak, and what should I look for when it begins to creep in again? How can I tell the source from this?
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 17, 2016, 12:32 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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OK - You are just being honest saying no experience with this - no problem. Check PS fluid level which many times is automatic transmission fluid = same thing but double check in owner's manual I can't be wrong on that. Either way it's an oil unlike brake fluid or antifreeze would wash off with plain water - got that?
What I mean by wiping suspect area clean is fundamental. Just take paper towels so you can toss them and wipe connection areas clean where you think it may be leaking as dry as you can. IDK - some say to puff some baby powder helps - I usually just find them myself as it's a leak like anything or even a cut on a finger you wipe it and blood comes back type thing.
So back to real fixes for rusted lines. Anyone can do about anything and it's tons better to do something new with someone who totally knows first to learn it. You can YouTube your brains out watching it done and not get it like in person or that "feel" that things are threaded properly before you tighten them up is near impossible to describe in words - you feel that or don't. Risks nasty if you cross threads up.
If PS fluid is low then follow lines to it to the gearbox too I think shown in pic with grease looking goo on it which is probably from someone greasing front end parts and got a glob and put it someplace. I do that on items just to both get rid of it and it's good at stopping or preventing rust on something you might be at later.
Whatever the true leak is check fluid levels. The low one is active of course. WARNING for either or any - it can wreck your power steering to run it out or way too low and the transmission as well so you have to do something or send the whole thing out.
It's not a problem personally to not know or have the mechanical understanding for all of this just from reading or seeing it on a device. Virtually nobody starts off alone with the smallest something then gets brain damage and takes up car/vehicle repair!
That's a joke as for the burns, cuts, expense, time spend learning wrong ways, breaking things so you can warn another, get all dirty, smell like a exhaust pipe and go back for more trust me you better love it!
One more for now. This gasket for exhaust probably isn't a donut gasket but some other type but doesn't matter. Getting that pipe off to fix anything would be a whole series of novels when it snaps off easily to do or could be a crack in a part you don't see yet just know there's a noise.
See what you can find for the leak. The clamp shown in the picture directly posted above by me showed a clamp that doesn't look original and could just be loose or inadequate so suspect that area or it alone for right now. You can tighten those clamps either by screwdriver or looks like 1/4" hex so a small wrench or socket might get at it. Clamps would only be used on a return line not a pressure line just BTW as pressure is way too high for plain hose and clamps about universally.
You don't get to know all this crap casually it a trade you never stop learning and ever changing as well. So far this is plain rust and how to deal with it. Already said, almost all techs have done battle with this crap and worse and have all the stuff as many are a real PITA.
Go find the spot if you can. If no luck at least know which fluid is low trans or PS level. Trans holds lots of ATF, PS maybe a quart so doesn't take much of a leak to be too low with problems - usually buzzing sounds while steering.
I've written enough for this post and sure you agree!
Tom
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 17, 2016, 3:00 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Was not aware of the same-type fluid. Will have to check the Power Steering and investigate.
As for the fluid levels, the truck cannot be started because the fuel line is entirely severed, so long as the fluid is replaced before starting the truck should be fine right? It's not going to go bad with low levels just sitting there is it?
Now, as much as I would love to do all the work myself and ensure the job gets done without anything else getting broken in the process, I don't have a lift, and so I think it's going to be better to let someone else do it. Just not sure who yet. I put an ad up on craigslist, but haven't seen any responses yet. Will need to get this fixed soon, so here's to hoping.
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Hammer Time
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Apr 17, 2016, 4:52 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Oh no................. you don't want some Craigslist idiot touching this. Take it to a reputable shop before you triple your problems.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 18, 2016, 3:13 AM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Grasshoppppaa - This is a game changer. You don't have the experience, tools for this and now this fuel leak so can't move this at all without a tow really or even run it, it seems.
Time to get it right once then if learning how to do stuff on you own begin with something that isn't so involved.
As Hammer Time said - to a know pro shop NOT GENERALLY SOMETHING FROM A CRAIGSLIST type place nor mobile help unless you already know of someone with known credentials for what they can do which won't be all of what you need on location.
Up top you said you just got this and was told it needed things that sounded so simple. Buyers beware. Check stuff out before and not go by seller bull. Most selling a problem already know it's more than they wanted to deal with when a problem exists at all.
Go pro shop and tech for help. At least this time get it right so you can get it going and use it or even give up and sell this off for something better? Good luck, Tom
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 18, 2016, 1:10 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Alright so, today I went out there to put some new plugs and wires in the truck, and got a few more pictures to ask about. The first is that I noticed there was some oil inside the intake box? Is that normal? It didn't seem like it. I did my best to wipe it all out but it still bothers me thinking about it. I couldn't get that darn thing back in either, I'll have to go back out there and wrestle with it another time.
The major thing I wanted to ask about was this apparently missing screw from the Transmission. This definitely looks dangerous. Also seems sabotaged, but that's another story. Definitely need to replace that I would image, but are there any other precautions I should take since this screw has been missing?
And the last thing I wanted to ask about was the transmission lines here. They look a little rusty, do you think I should have them replaced? I'd hate to have to do it later. Would it be too much trouble to bother with?
Once again, pictures for clarity purposes.
http://i.imgur.com/ijm4JEV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jX55Bxx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hlGrTtQ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WH7X7LB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FyTOFIu.jpg
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Hammer Time
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Apr 18, 2016, 1:18 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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If I were you I would just get rid of this thing. Somebody already used compression fittings on the line and left the rest of the rotted out lines there. You have rust damage everywhere.
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 18, 2016, 1:31 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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It's really not so bad, just those lines and the fuels lines. Would be expected sitting on the grass. The rest isn't so bad though. What do you think about that missing screw? Anything to be worried about?
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Hammer Time
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Apr 18, 2016, 1:42 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Don't tell me it's not that bad. I bet you have close to $1,000 in line repairs.
The oil in the intake means the rings have blowby.
The bolt missing on the inspection cover is no big deal.
Overall, this thing isn't worth putting money into.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 18, 2016, 3:19 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Quoting YOU from post #15 first......
">>the truck cannot be started because the fuel line is entirely severed<<"
Friend, what is the point in any discussion till it can even run to check squat? Rusted lines - any and all will have to be dealt with clearly first time with a pro to learn or just forget it and send it to a real shop qualified to fix it as you've plain said you can't deal with this for lack of much more than a nice picture job.
I/we (not speaking for anyone else here) techs reading what you ask can't start from ground zero for tools and know how. Sites like this can finish off where a DIYer gets stuck sharing techno data or how things are done plus what to do with assorted things up to and including very verbose descriptions of how to deal with rust - the all time killer of motor vehicle and even whole Interstate Highway bridges have totally collapsed over it. It's never one size fits all.
Would be real nice if we or any site could somehow just pop decades of experience into your head all at once and skip actually going to school, spending more $$ on tools that most will on a house - totally not a joke! All that and actually have to charge a buck to break even let alone make anything.
I'll be long dead but the day a computer and the web fixes all problem anyone can muster for free no less may come but we aren't there or close just yet.
Sites like this are already failing as this one is totally free. Other you pay for info up to perhaps a live person sharing info and pics of what's going on as you need help - we aren't that and YOU don't have the tools anyway - you said so and take you at your word.
So what is practical for you? Two of us have suggested send it out to a professional. You may ask "how do I know who's good and who might not be?" - one is they can show credentials of experience and training like but no limited to ASE does show that person has passed a test that should rule out just anyone taking the tests but doesn't mean the one in front of you is ethical, or well equipped with your specific needs. It's really like about any personal service trade that requires training AND experience both.
The mobile tech thing I question vs a building and shop you go to. Yes the tech could be excellent but how much can you finish without the shop on location? Unknown. I'd pass on that unless that tech comes, checks it out and says I have to tow it to my shop or another to do this.
Right now this is a total fire hazard spitting fuel out if you try to do anything so kinds ends this discussion if you can't get past that.
Never mind the pics you have expressed you really can't fix anything anyway so what is the real point?
Tom
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Grasshoppaaa
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Apr 18, 2016, 3:47 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Thanks gentlemen. Sorry to have been a bother, I really hate that. I will have to take it to someone and have the lines replaced.
Thank you for all of your time.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Apr 18, 2016, 4:31 PM
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Re: 2000 S10 Rusted Lines and Leaking Trans Fluid
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Hey - you are welcome. Point is hard to know when something is practical at all to do yourself or not. When not is the choice it's nice to have a shop for anyone who owns a vehicle that they are familiar with.
Know we are all volunteers sharing what took ages to learn, do and try to at least make people happy and make a buck too - everyone's satisfied. It costs to do this stuff more than about any other trade I know of. It's #1 at complaints no doubt thinking everything is a rip off - trust me, it isn't.
Done with this stuff except sites now. When working trust me there's no joy in an unhappy customer for assorted reasons probably just that it costs real money and wrecks budgets for surprises.
Carry on and good luck making this vehicle up to par for what you want,
Tom
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