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New engine additive, your thoughts?


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jeko17
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Jul 29, 2009, 7:29 PM

Post #1 of 16 (3314 views)
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Hey all,

I've been hearing a lot of buzz about a new fuel and oil additive called FORCE Fuel and Engine Conditioner. They say it's different because it is not petroleum based and is biodegradable. The claims are 7-19% better fuel economy, upto 30% reduction in emissions, longer lasting engine, blah, blah, blah.

It seems pricey at $39/bottle, but it's a pretty big bottle and they say it should last about 20 tankfulls, depending on the size of your tank.

Has anyone tried this stuff? I'm thinking about trying it and putting it through a test of my own, but wanted to get any others opinions on it first?

'02 Ford Escape XLT


ForceGuy
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Jul 30, 2009, 11:22 AM

Post #2 of 16 (3304 views)
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Jeko17,

I'm a FORCE * Fuel & Engine Conditioner distributor and this product and business is starting to spread big time. I'm on my 4th tankful in my Cherokee Jeep and getting almost 15% in more MPG, which is about $ 8.00 in savings every time I fill up. May not sound like much, but how many people do you know that drive across town to save 3 cents a gallon!

Let me know if you want more info; The business is ground floor, just launched here in Louisville, KY this month. Already got friends making $ 800 a month in part time money. The FORCE product sells itself and it doesn't hurt that Al Unser, Jr. and the Firestone INDY Lights Racing Series endorses and uses the product. His son, Al Unser, III races in this league.

Go to link deleted to answer all your questions and let me know if you want a bottle to try and test at deleted. If you are serious, yes I'll ship you a $ 35 bottle.

Thanks, Ron


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 30, 2009, 12:13 PM)


trw
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Aug 3, 2009, 6:23 AM

Post #3 of 16 (3279 views)
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for me... when it comes to oil and fuel additives
iam very sceptical at first unlless i see some kind
of hard evidence to back that Products Claims up

i will not buy or use it not to say yours is doesent.
but right now i use and have used BG products for
years why?

reputation ,excellent unlimited warranty program
i have used them
for years with excellent results. THATS A FACT!

NOT FICTION! unlike many others that claim this
or that what facts do you have to show us your product
is anybetter?... aside from word of mouth??...


ForceGuy
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Aug 3, 2009, 8:40 AM

Post #4 of 16 (3270 views)
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TRW,

Please go to *********** where we have compiled video answers to all questions such as yours about ***** Fuel & Engine Conditioner from the scienctist involved in reformulating this product for USA markets. Also, not a science claim, but the Firestone INDY Lights Racing Series drivers use FORCE in their multi-thousand dollar race cars and the product is endorsed by the racing league and Al Unser, Jr. I don't think these pro drivers would endorse or use a deficient product in the cars they make a living driving. Please go to my website at *********** to purchase FORCE or become a Distributor. If you get interested in becoming a distributor, I would even ship you a bottle for free to use and test. I can be reached at ********** Thanks, Ron

(links/etc removed on edit not allowed)


(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Aug 3, 2009, 9:38 AM)


Hammer Time
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Aug 3, 2009, 11:10 AM

Post #5 of 16 (3261 views)
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Forceguy

Your links have been removed 3 times. Don't post them again.
If you want to give him a link, do it through PM.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 3, 2009, 11:10 AM)


ForceGuy
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Aug 3, 2009, 11:57 AM

Post #6 of 16 (3254 views)
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What is a PM? Private Message? Where does one find a PM?


Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 3, 2009, 12:09 PM

Post #7 of 16 (3253 views)
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Click on the person's user name and it will open their profile and see if they have enable PMs. It would show in lower right corner of new page,

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


ForceGuy
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Aug 3, 2009, 3:46 PM

Post #8 of 16 (3241 views)
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Thank you.


Sidom
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Aug 3, 2009, 6:20 PM

Post #9 of 16 (3236 views)
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In Reply To
getting almost 15% in more MPG, which is about $ 8.00 in savings every time I fill up. May not sound like much

No it doesn't sound like much, but in Detroit, those are huge numbers...... So I gotta ask. . . . .Why don't the auto makers use this product???? 15% MPG with out millions in R&D, man they would kill for that. . . . . So race applications & stock are the same?.... I never realized those guy were putting a 100k & more on those engines & drivetrain.........hmmmm....learn something new everyday..........Wink






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(This post was edited by Sidom on Aug 3, 2009, 6:21 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 4, 2009, 5:15 AM

Post #10 of 16 (3224 views)
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So true Sidom! If it was that simple non million but BILLIONS would be saved by automakers for 15% and they'd jump all over it. New car oil specs have kept up and routinely get upped for just these reasons. If true, the "Society of Automotive Engineers" SAE would be calling for it as the new specification for new cars.

This may be of some help. Some additives and snake oils do have some benefit for assorted reasons and items, IMO most are a detriment vs using suggestions by manufacturer.

I do believe in synthetic oils mainly for their ability to withstand higher than average heat and overheats without making sludge. Do or can synthetics when they meet SAE specs help with fuel and power. IMO - some but hasn't been enough to motivate car makers to use it or make it a requirement for their cars except for a few - Corvette being one.

Also an opinion: I believe the price or brand of oil does matter in how long they can maintain the "new" properties it had.

______________

I believe in greed by makers of things in general. If they can find a short cut they'll use it ESPECIALLY for a 15% claim when proven! Been a few moons but back in '73 - the oil embargo that shot fuel costs up the claims of tricks to make carbs get 70MPG was being withheld by automakers and oil concerns/companies is false. If the big three could have done that the USA wouldn't have gone wild buying foreign vehicles that already and by nature (weighed less) got more MPGs.


On the upside of things if not for trying new ideas and testing them out we wouldn't advance much over the centuries so don't stop thinkingCool

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


ForceGuy
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Aug 4, 2009, 5:22 AM

Post #11 of 16 (3221 views)
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Sidom,

Did not mean to minimize the savings; $ 8.00 savings when I fill up my Grand Cherokee Jeep does not seem like much, but how many people drive across town to save 4 cents a gallon? I don't think the Big (small) 3 carmakers endorse any after market product; MPG also has Huge variable results; I'm a solid believer in my FORCE product and business, got an extra 20% mpg on a recent trip to Chicago, but zero increase my last tank due to all intown driving and much idling.

Did not understand your last comment. The Firestone Indy Lights Series drivers do use our FORCE product and endorse it. We award a $ 1,000 HardCharger check each race for the driver that improves their postion the most.

If you think you may be serious about becoming a distributor, I'll ship you a bottle to test. LMK.


Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 4, 2009, 6:35 AM

Post #12 of 16 (3220 views)
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Force - that was me the post just above yours. I'm not ready to believe an additive alone will do the #s mentioned. It's nuts because if absolutely true it would be mandated to use. My own vehicles will vary by about 10% on trips and I watch carefully. The day's weather, temp AND where you bough fuel matters a lot. My state, Massachusetts mandates the use of additives that abutting NH only does in some areas. The fuel I buy on trips (same route to a family home ~160 miles) will yield more MPGs by a lot if I fuel up with no alcohol fuels which are still available in some parts of NH. By a lot I mean clearly 5% or so better without the mandated additives for MA.

The overwhelming loss/waste of energy in a fuel burning engine is heat more than friction of the engine itself. That might account for as much as 40% of the energy and does nothing to propel a vehicle with the cars out there right now. There's a wild difference when different fuel stations are used also. I do believe most play fair and a gallon is a gallon but not all pumps will fill the car the exact fullness so for exacting the true MPGs need be in a controlled environment with exact same conditions.

What I've seen is allow a vehicle exactly one gallon and how far it goes under test conditions. That way no mistakes or inaccuracies should be noted.

I don't watch the race car thing out there but over the decades sponsors rule. They need the bucks and have taken it from an assortment of concerns including cigarette makers, beer, and non automotive things. Hmmm. Money talks I guess.

This isn't to say you are selling a useful product but just one test of your own of 20% is not realistic IMO. State what 1,000 miles of keeping records adds up to and now you are closing in on the reality. I really don't think there's 20% total waste in engine friction alone.

Over the decades there was the magic of Arco Graphite, Teflon treatment, Slick 50 (a Teflon approach) and you don't hear anyone boasting about them anymore just like the hardware store kit you can make to double your mileage.

Again - not saying you don't have a viable product but with car makers now in distress they would do anything to claim less emissions and more MPGs retested models by EPA rules for just 2% gain. Please don't state 20% as there isn't that much loss in the motor oil alone to recover/save.

Appreciate you P+V in your venture and it's worth discussingWink

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Aug 4, 2009, 6:55 AM

Post #13 of 16 (3214 views)
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I completely agree with you Tom. There are way too many outrageous, unsubstantiated claims out there. One of my pet peeves is K&N air filters and the claims they make. It's all snake oil to me. Some of these additive products have minimal benefit but the 20% stuff is nonsense and just creative marketing.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 4, 2009, 6:55 AM)


ForceGuy
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Aug 4, 2009, 7:45 AM

Post #14 of 16 (3208 views)
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Hammer Time,

If it's nonsense, then you need to prove it. I've already done so. Send me your address (cannot ship to PO Boxes & military bases) and I'll ship you a $ 40 bottle for free to use and test. (Price includes sales tax & shipping).

It it's still nonsense, then you're free to post same. Until then, I'm afraid you do not come off as very credible.

BTW, FORCE is a "lubricant conditioner" with engine & engine parts cleaning properties derived from ester technology, not an additive as we think of such (ie, acetone or petroleum based).

If friction in an internal combustion engine could be reduced to zero, what would that waste percentage be? I don't know, just asking.

Thanks, Ron


Hammer Time
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Aug 4, 2009, 8:20 AM

Post #15 of 16 (3205 views)
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LMAO............

Your the one making outrageous claims and I'm the one that's not credible?

I don't have top prove a thing. Your the one with the magic oil and you haven't convinced me that it can do anything. Your personal and unsupervised tests won't get you very far in this industry.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 4, 2009, 8:20 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 4, 2009, 9:18 AM

Post #16 of 16 (3198 views)
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Seems like yesterday there was a product that was so slippery (was TV advertised) that you could drain your oil and they showed two ladies drive the car showing drain plug out go some 200 miles without any oil! Forget that product. Pure bull as hydraulic lifters would have collapsed and engine shut down even if there was such a thing and oil is part of cooling the engine or at least helpful for evening out temps as it's always moving along all paths intended.

AGAIN - There's no way there's 20% to gain because I seriously doubt 20 full % is lost to engine friction. This suggests that a 100HP tested engine would then test at 120HP - I don't think so!

This would be mandated if so by law. Look what trouble the world is in over fossil fuel consumption which isn't going away anytime soon but 20% instantly would crash the oil commodity market.

It was 20 years ago Ford was working on a porcelain engine with tolerances so exact that the prototype needed no lubrication! Air gap too small to measure was acting as oil. Trouble is temperature changes the size of things so it was just a good experiment that couldn't be made feasible for market.

Just go easy on claims of what really can't be as said already if an engine had zero friction it isn't 20% of the loss for power/energy made to propel in an internal combustion engine no matter the fuel type,

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now




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