Main IndexAuto Repair Home Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN







Search Auto Parts

Thinking about a service contract for my clunker


  Email This Post



ultimatecarnut
User

Apr 4, 2012, 12:34 PM

Post #1 of 14 (3711 views)
  post locked   Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

Anyone ever have anything GOOD to say about any of the aftermarket / used car warranty companies? The general consensus seems to be that they are all scams, but I've had friends in the past who have been very happy with theirs and have more than got their money back.

My Dodge van has been giving me the fits for months now. I got some great advice here: http://autoforums.carjunky.com/Automotive_Repair_C1/Engine_Troubles_F16/97_Dodge_Ram_Van_3500_-_no_spark_P104546/, but in the end I'm over my head and always end up having to take it in for repair. The latest problem is that it seems to be running hot, so I'm fearing the worst.

I checked around on-line and found Omnesco.com which offers a month-to-month, pay as you go plan. $50 bucks a month is way more palatable than a couple grand all at once. And I'd like to keep driving my van because I can't afford another work vehicle.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for asking this, but does anyone have any good experiences to share, or a good warranty company you've used and would recommend? I don't know what else to do with this pile!!!

Thanks in advance!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 4, 2012, 12:47 PM

Post #2 of 14 (3702 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

Warranty companies are just like insurance. If they can't win, they don't want to play so it's not likely you will come out ahead with any of them.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



nickwarner
Veteran / Moderator
nickwarner profile image

Apr 4, 2012, 4:14 PM

Post #3 of 14 (3665 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

Same reasons casinos have blackjack tables. Sooner or later, the house always wins.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 5, 2012, 12:32 AM

Post #4 of 14 (3648 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

So true Nick - They don't build those sky scraper hotel casinos because they lose!

Tom


nickwarner
Veteran / Moderator
nickwarner profile image

Apr 5, 2012, 5:40 PM

Post #5 of 14 (3635 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

I had a customer ask me to look at the fine print for her once and got to see how they make their money. The way they exclude things is insane. It covers almost nothing, you have to pay upfront and they reimburse you only if the claim is approved, tech has to fill out a bunch of paperwork. Big hassle. One item sticks in my head. It would cover a CV joint, but ONLY if the boot was intact. Most all the CV shafts I see fail is because the boot ripped. Just another way to not pay out. Told her if she gave me the same amount of money I'd warranty it at the same contract. She didn't bite when I told her she would be getting hosed and was better off just paying as she went for what she needed.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 5, 2012, 5:46 PM

Post #6 of 14 (3633 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

I see most of them eliminate fluids and filters. Did you ever try repairing an air conditioner without refrigerant or a dryer?

I had one for an evaporator that was 8 hours to remove. The warranty company said I had to remove it for inspection before they would authorize the repair.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 5, 2012, 7:12 PM

Post #7 of 14 (3624 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

Don't trust those as far as I can throw them myself. A one time customer who paid a whopping $2,000 for a used car warranty had more troubles than the car was worth and NOTHING was covered in the fine print! He paid me once to go see the car and what was wrong and couldn't find a pen with enough ink.

IMO - get used cars checked out pre-purchase is the best bet then save that insurance $$ for surprises,

T



Larry T
User

Apr 6, 2012, 4:14 PM

Post #8 of 14 (3598 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

I'm a little late with this response, but with my insurance background, I have to say that I agree with HT, Nick and Tom. Extended warranties are a total waste of money. One more thought, since you say you have a van. Do you use it commercially? If so, the warranty is void.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Apr 8, 2012, 4:31 AM

Post #9 of 14 (3585 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

I've seen ONE beat the cost but what a hassle still like HT said. About all others were a waste and people seek trouble free and paid repairs if needed and I don't blame them but this isn't the way to go so far,

Tom


ultimatecarnut
User

Apr 11, 2012, 12:57 PM

Post #10 of 14 (3558 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

  
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Based on reading other posts and forums, none of this is any surprise to hear. I'm generally pretty skeptical myself. I've read the contract and it seems pretty thorough (no obvious exclusions). Plus due to the fact that I have known people who've liked their warranties, I was searching for any other positive feedback.

Normally, I wouldn't consider buying something like this, but with my continued bad luck and being able to make small monthly payments, I thought I'd consider it.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Cheers-


(This post was edited by ultimatecarnut on Apr 11, 2012, 12:58 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 11, 2012, 1:10 PM

Post #11 of 14 (3554 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  


Quote
no obvious exclusions


You've got to be missing something. There has to be some exclusions somewhere.

Some of them are even sneakier by just omitting things from the covered list that you don't even notice missing until you have a failure.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 11, 2012, 1:12 PM)


nickwarner
Veteran / Moderator
nickwarner profile image

Apr 7, 2013, 2:24 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1405 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

You'd be money ahead putting the premiums for that policy aside to pay for car repairs yourself. Every shop owner I know cringes when a customer tells them they have one of these.

This is a bit long but worth reading. Its from a shop management forum on a technician website where they discussed this.


2007 camry comes in. Customer was on expressway and she said
she heard some strange noise and SES light came on. The
water pump is leaking bad and the belt jumped pulleys. I
then see a lot of oil around the cylinder head area and
under the car. The oil is coming from the head gasket. The
car runs fine and the SES light was a coolant sensor code
from low coolant level. The customer informs us of the
warranty contract she has. Call the warranty company and
they say we must tear down the engine before they will talk
about what they will cover. I have dealt with these
companies many times and they usually wont cover anything
saying its abuse or normal wear and tear. I don't have a
copy of the contract and the warranty company says they
don't have anything they can fax me. They want to play hard
ball and skate out of paying im sure. What can I tell them
once I pull this thing apart and say the head is not
cracked. I know its all in the proper verbage of what you
say. They may have strange stipulations like they cover a
cylinder head but because its just a head gasket they don't
cover or vis versa. I don't know if this vehicle leaked oil
prior to the water pump failure. Any advise?
Reply
Patrick Carroll (Mar 15) Member RecommendedOther members have recommended this message by selecting the button on the message view page. In reply to: Mark Stull

Hi Mark

Why play this game?

Inform the customer what it going to take to get their car
back on the road. She told you she has an extended contract.
It does not mean that you are now her negotiator for her.
Tell her to call the company and she has a claim. The
company then will contact you.

If the company covers the repair great for everyone. If the
company covers part of the repair it does not change the
finall result of getting the car fixed. They pay thier part
and the customer pays her's. If they cover nothing then the
customer gets the bill and you get paid in all three cases.

What the company will not cover in in labor and parts is
covered by the cusomer if they want you to do the work.
Example, they cover 40 hr labor but your rate is higher the
customer pays the difference.

Unless you are tacking on hrs to the repair for spending
countless hrs on the phone with this company, I don't see
this as your problem. Customer's car, customer's problem,
customer's extended policy. Did she ask you to broker this
deal with this company for her?

Tell her you will be glad to answer any questions the
company may have. But the price and time to take to fix the
car will not change. An extended warranty company should not
dictate how you want to run your business to keep the doors
open.

Paddy
Reply
Dennis Weatherman (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

If these decisions were up to me, this is exactlly how I
would approach a similar situation. Well put, Patrick.
Reply
Steve Bredemann (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

Great explanation Patrick. Our job is to fix cars, not
become some sports agent negotiator between two parties.
Reply
Mark Stull (Mar 15) In reply to: Steve Bredemann

I know what you are saying. I feel bad for these customers
who spend $1500-$2000 on an extended warranty and most of
time, the warranty company screws the customer by not
paying. Im trying to help the customer out. I know its not
my problem. I do have a heart.
Reply
Donald Lewis (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

>I know what you are saying. I feel bad for these customers
>who spend $1500-$2000 on an extended warranty and most of
>time, the warranty company screws the customer by not
>paying. Im trying to help the customer out. I know its not
>my problem. I do have a heart.

Good that you have a heart, but do you help them battle
their health insurance carrier also?

The money they spent on the warranty company has nothing to
do with you. I trust if they had asked if buying the
warranty would be a good idea you would have told them HELL
NO!

Don in Austin
Reply
Steve Bredemann (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Hey Mark,

I know you have your customers best interests at heart and
you want to do all you can for them, cause without em',
you're out of a job.

The service advisors here hate dealing with extended service
companies. Seems most of the time customers don't even tell
us about any type of service contract until we have a
estimate for whatever work they want performed or problem
looked at. Than after we give them a total, they whip out
the "service contract" like some kind of Ace up their
sleeve, and think it's all covered by this third party rip
off scam. Than the fun begins while negotiations take place
between us and them as to what is covered and why or why
not.

Feel for ya brother. Hard position to be put in, but
customers money could be better spent than some high
risk/low yield crap shoot of a warranty.
Reply
Patrick Carroll (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Hi Mark

I am glad you have a heart. Start a charity or join one and
help out. If you want to work at a discount or free, good
for you. If you want to run a business then get paid well to
fix another's problem.

True story about a Ext. Warranty on a friends car. It was a
Equinox with a misfire and overheat. Cust takes to dealer 3
minutes from his house. They sell him spark plugs and send
him on his way. Next day car gets hot and misfires. He takes
it back and they fill it up with coolant and sends him on
his way. Next day he calls me to tell me it is coming my
way.

Car arrives and takes less then 2 minutes to confirm the
headgasket is blown. He calls the EW company which was GM.
They send an adjuster out to see car. I show him the test
results in front of him. He says how much to fix?

I tell him the total out the door price. He hits the roof
and asks what my labor rate was? I told him and he then
tells me I can not charge that much because it is higher
than the dealer. I came right back and told him I could
charge what I wanted to because I owned the place and he has
NO right to tell me how I will run my business.

He says he will advise the customer to take it to the
dealer. I said OK but it has been to the dealer twice in
less than three days and they could not or would not fix it.

He wrote me a check for the total amount right there. I
fixed the car and was paid well for my trouble.

The dealer in this situation is like any other shop that
does not pay attention to the complaint from the customer.
Nobody took the time to put the two problems together.

I don't hagel or jack around with these companies anymore.
Here is the price, what do you want to do?

Paddy
Reply
Tony Spenard (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

>Hi Mark
>
>I am glad you have a heart. Start a charity or join one and
>help out. If you want to work at a discount or free, good
>for you. If you want to run a business then get paid well to
>fix another's problem.
>
>True story about a Ext. Warranty on a friends car. It was a
>Equinox with a misfire and overheat. Cust takes to dealer 3
>minutes from his house. They sell him spark plugs and send
>him on his way. Next day car gets hot and misfires. He takes
>it back and they fill it up with coolant and sends him on
>his way. Next day he calls me to tell me it is coming my
>way.
>
>Car arrives and takes less then 2 minutes to confirm the
>headgasket is blown. He calls the EW company which was GM.
>They send an adjuster out to see car. I show him the test
>results in front of him. He says how much to fix?
>
>I tell him the total out the door price. He hits the roof
>and asks what my labor rate was? I told him and he then
>tells me I can not charge that much because it is higher
>than the dealer. I came right back and told him I could
>charge what I wanted to because I owned the place and he has
>NO right to tell me how I will run my business.
>
>He says he will advise the customer to take it to the
>dealer. I said OK but it has been to the dealer twice in
>less than three days and they could not or would not fix it.
>
>He wrote me a check for the total amount right there. I
>fixed the car and was paid well for my trouble.
>
>The dealer in this situation is like any other shop that
>does not pay attention to the complaint from the customer.
>Nobody took the time to put the two problems together.
>
>I don't hagel or jack around with these companies anymore.
>Here is the price, what do you want to do?
>
>Paddy

Great post. Just out of curiosity regarding the GM extended
warranty, don't they expect and/or demand that warranty
claims be done at a GM dealership unless it is a tow-in on
vacation or some other unusual circumstance?
Reply
Patrick Carroll (Mar 15) In reply to: Tony Spenard

Hi Tony

Don't know for sure. I know it was a GM extended warranty
company. I have done similar work for Chrysler extended
warranty before also.

Paddy
Reply
Scott Hager (Mar 16) In reply to: Tony Spenard

>Just out of curiosity regarding the GM extended
>warranty, don't they expect and/or demand that warranty
>claims be done at a GM dealership unless it is a tow-in on
>vacation or some other unusual circumstance?

The correct answer is "no".

You can take it to any shop of your choosing. General Motors
Protection Plan (GMPP) is one of, if not THE, best warranty
company to deal with. They don't play any games or have
hidden fine print. It's covered or its not. They pay
customer pay time, not warranty time at your going rate
(within reason I'm sure)
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 16) In reply to: Scott Hager

>>Just out of curiosity regarding the GM extended
>>warranty, don't they expect and/or demand that warranty
>>claims be done at a GM dealership unless it is a tow-in on
>>vacation or some other unusual circumstance?
>
>The correct answer is "no".
>
>You can take it to any shop of your choosing. General Motors
>Protection Plan (GMPP) is one of, if not THE, best warranty
>company to deal with. They don't play any games or have
>hidden fine print. It's covered or its not. They pay
>customer pay time, not warranty time at your going rate
>(within reason I'm sure)

Mostly agree...GM CARES is online now and doesn't even
require a phone call. At a GM dealership, they still pay GM
warranty time with very limited diag time. Occasionally, on
other brands, we have to use their warranty time, which
means the writer or warranty clerk has to call the Ford
dealership and get the warranty time for the covered op, and
we use our nearest labor op and get paid Ford warranty time,
not CP time. That's rare but it happens.
Reply
James Avery (Mar 17) In reply to: Robert Duncanson

>
>
>
>>Just out of curiosity regarding the GM extended
>>warranty, don't they expect and/or demand that warranty
>>claims be done at a GM dealership unless it is a tow-in on
>>vacation or some other unusual circumstance?
>>
>>The correct answer is "no".
>>
>>You can take it to any shop of your choosing. General Motors
>>Protection Plan (GMPP) is one of, if not THE, best warranty
>>company to deal with. They don't play any games or have
>>hidden fine print. It's covered or its not. They pay
>>customer pay time, not warranty time at your going rate
>>(within reason I'm sure)
>
>Mostly agree...GM CARES is online now and doesn't even
>require a phone call. At a GM dealership, they still pay GM
>warranty time with very limited diag time. Occasionally, on
>other brands, we have to use their warranty time, which
>means the writer or warranty clerk has to call the Ford
>dealership and get the warranty time for the covered op, and
>we use our nearest labor op and get paid Ford warranty time,
>not CP time. That's rare but it happens.

That's why we sublet GMPP repairs if the vehicle is not G.M.
Nobody here will do warranty time repairs on other makes
without needed equipment and/or training which the
dealership will not provide.
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 17) In reply to: James Avery

>>we use our nearest labor op and get paid Ford warranty time,
>>not CP time. That's rare but it happens.
>
>That's why we sublet GMPP repairs if the vehicle is not G.M.
>Nobody here will do warranty time repairs on other makes
>without needed equipment and/or training which the
>dealership will not provide.

We sublet as well if any special tools are needed, including
factory scanners to setup. Like I said, it's rare.
Reply
Byron Dickens (Mar 18) In reply to: Scott Hager

Not quite so fast.

I've got a car on my lift this very moment as I'm posting
this with a GMPP on it that is getting a power steering
pump.

This pump is being done at our client's expense. The claim
was denied because "the dealer" said the rack was leaking
and they sent an inspector out to verify. The rationale they
give is that because our client didn't get the rack fixed,
it took out the pump.

Well, that rack must have fixed itself because it ain't
leaking now.

The facts are that I sprayed some foot powder all over
everything (Thanks, Albin!), put some dye in the power
steering system and took the car for a drive. When I came
back, I put the car up in the air and shined my UV light
around.

There is a trace of fluorescence at the joint where two
parts of the case come together and a tiny trace at one of
the lines at the rack. Pull back the boot on the left side
of the rack, no fluorescence.

The dye don't lie.

As it so happens on this car, the leaking oil runs down the
back of the pump and drips off onto the A/C compressor. From
there, it drips onto the subframe and rolls off onto guess
what - the steering gear right where the boot meets the body
of the rack.
Reply
Scott Hager (Mar 18) In reply to: Byron Dickens

>Not quite so fast.
>
>I've got a car on my lift this very moment as I'm posting
>this with a GMPP on it that is getting a power steering
>pump.
>
>This pump is being done at our client's expense. The claim
>was denied because "the dealer" said the rack was leaking
>and they sent an inspector out to verify. The rationale they
>give is that because our client didn't get the rack fixed,
>it took out the pump.
>

If they sent an inspector out, then it must be because the
rack was a covered item.

How come it didn't get a rack at the dealer?

>Well, that rack must have fixed itself because it ain't
>leaking now.
>
>The facts are that I sprayed some foot powder all over
>everything (Thanks, Albin!), put some dye in the power
>steering system and took the car for a drive. When I came
>back, I put the car up in the air and shined my UV light
>around.
>
>There is a trace of fluorescence at the joint where two
>parts of the case come together and a tiny trace at one of
>the lines at the rack. Pull back the boot on the left side
>of the rack, no fluorescence.
>
>The dye don't lie.
>
>As it so happens on this car, the leaking oil runs down the
>back of the pump and drips off onto the A/C compressor. From
>there, it drips onto the subframe and rolls off onto guess
>what - the steering gear right where the boot meets the body
>of the rack.

So, your diagnosis reveals something different. I can see
their point. Why did it not get a rack first?
Reply
Byron Dickens (Mar 18) In reply to: Scott Hager

I have no idea why it didn't get a rack at the dealer. Not
my concern.

I don't care what "the dealer" told someone. All I know is
what I see right here, right now. This isn't the
first time that "the dealer" misdiagnosed something, nor
will it be the last.
Reply
Scott Hager (Mar 18) In reply to: Byron Dickens

>I have no idea why it didn't get a rack at the dealer. Not
>my concern.
>
>I don't care what "the dealer" told someone. All I know is
>what I see right here, right now. This isn't the
>first time that "the dealer" misdiagnosed something, nor
>will it be the last.

That's not my point. My point is; if the rack was bad, and a
covered item, then why did it not get replaced? The warranty
company is basing their decision on lack or replacement.
Something smells fishy.
Reply
Byron Dickens (Mar 19) In reply to: Scott Hager

The rack is not bad.
Reply
Scott Hager (Mar 19) In reply to: Byron Dickens

>The rack is not bad.

I understand that.

The warranty company doesn't.

The dealer has/had a different opinion. That's why they
don't.

The customer screwed themselves by switching shops
midstream.

If you can't or won't make them understand, then the
customer pays.
Reply
Jamey Thornton (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

No good deed goes unpunished!!
Reply
Marlin Good (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

>I know what you are saying. I feel bad for these customers
>who spend $1500-$2000 on an extended warranty and most of
>time, the warranty company screws the customer by not
>paying. Im trying to help the customer out. I know its not
>my problem. I do have a heart.

But it might quit on you if you sweat these things too much.
Reply
Dean Zweibohmer (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

>I know what you are saying. I feel bad for these customers
>who spend $1500-$2000 on an extended warranty and most of
>time, the warranty company screws the customer by not
>paying. Im trying to help the customer out. I know its not
>my problem. I do have a heart.

When you go to the hospital and have surgery done, what
occurs? The hospital sends the bill to you and the insurance
company, you pay whatever the insurance company doesn't pay.

Why should this be any different?
Reply
Michael Byer (Mar 15) In reply to: Dean Zweibohmer

I agree with Mark Stull but health insurance doesn't work
that way, the hospital has a contract with the insurance
company and the doctors. When I had my knees replaced the
hospital wrote off a significant amount along with the
doctors and they notified me that I would not be billed for
the difference. Sucks for them but they are under contract
to the insurers.
Reply
Dean Zweibohmer (Mar 15) In reply to: Michael Byer

The hospital may have a contract to do the procedure for a
set price, however you are still responsible for the bill,
not the insurance company. Whatever they don't pay and the
hospital can justify the charges such as a box of Kleenex,
you are paying for it out of your pocket in addition to the
deductible and coinsurance. So it does work that way, you
can claim you aren't responsible but you are and the
insurance company isn't.
Reply
Michael Byer (Mar 16) In reply to: Dean Zweibohmer

I've had so many surgeries over the past ten years I know
what insurance pays, I would have long since been bankrupt
without it, and never has the hospital billed me except the
deductible which I paid. Being a mechanic for fifty years
will just wear you out.
Reply
Dean Zweibohmer (Mar 16) In reply to: Michael Byer

You live in different world than I do because the statement
from the hospital always beats the settlement from the
insurance company in my mail.

And I'm responsible for the bill if insurance isn't paying
it.
Reply
Bill Braun (Mar 16) In reply to: Dean Zweibohmer

No offense intended, but that says quite a bit about the
difference between his insurance co and yours, doesn't it

Kind of like extended warranty companies....some worse than
others.
Reply
Dean Zweibohmer (Mar 16) In reply to: Bill Braun

Actually it goes back to state insurance regulations for
each state.

It used to be Blue Cross in this state after they basically
forced all others out of the state. Then they got sued over
claims settlement and renamed themselves Wellmark.

Some of the biggest crooks in the state with a license to
steal if you ask me. {: o)
Reply
Jay Mathes (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

I am glad you have a heart.

But, you need to put a picture of the consumer's family and
YOUR family next to each other. Which one do you need to be
accountable to?

Not to minimize the need to be compassionate, but you need
to put your company and family first.

Charity needs to be done outside of your normal work day. I
suggest it be outside your business. To expand on that
thought, I would suggest you chose what charity or charities
you want to support and do so to the extent you feel
compelled to. Charity is something YOU should choose to do.
Like phone solicitors, you need to choose who you spend time
& $$ with. Do you want to just take anyone who calls?

If this is a normal customer of yours, a little extra effort
is fine. Just don't sell the store to the ins. co. because
you like the customer.

The insurance company needs to minimize their payments, you
need to make your normal $$. I would again suggest you
handle this $$ wise the same as if there were no insurance
involved.
Reply
Jerry Ferraiuolo (Mar 17) In reply to: Mark Stull

When I retired from the PD I took a job working for an
extended warranty administration company. I didn't last to
long as I looked at the claim through the eyes of the shop.
I couldn't understand the companies thinking that it only
took a half hour to diagnose a problem with a vehicle. I
often wondered how and why the shops choose to deal with the
warranty companies. I do know the company I worked for only
spoke with the shop, they didn't discuss the repair with the
vehicle owner.the job was a lot of grief for me.
Reply
Rod Zimmerman (Mar 18) In reply to: Mark Stull

It has not been my experience that the warranty company's
try and get out of paying. most pay 70-80% of my charges. My
customers always seem pleased to get that. When carefully
explained the customer fully understands the warranty
provider is not going to pay 100% of all charges.
Reply
Nickolas Perlick (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

Patrick sums up the perfect response. Yes you can feel for
the customer but don't bow to the warrany company. Let the
customer do that, see how awful it is and never purchase it
again.
Reply
Bill VanOrden (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

Ding ding ding ding.....

Ve haf vinner!
Reply
John Daniel (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

AMEN Brother.. Testify
Reply
Ken Layne (Mar 16) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

>Hi Mark
>
>Why play this game?
>
>Inform the customer what it going to take to get their car
>back on the road. She told you she has an extended contract.
>It does not mean that you are now her negotiator for her.
>Tell her to call the company and she has a claim. The
>company then will contact you.
>
>If the company covers the repair great for everyone. If the
>company covers part of the repair it does not change the
>finall result of getting the car fixed. They pay thier part
>and the customer pays her's. If they cover nothing then the
>customer gets the bill and you get paid in all three cases.
>
>What the company will not cover in in labor and parts is
>covered by the cusomer if they want you to do the work.
>Example, they cover 40 hr labor but your rate is higher the
>customer pays the difference.
>
>Unless you are tacking on hrs to the repair for spending
>countless hrs on the phone with this company, I don't see
>this as your problem. Customer's car, customer's problem,
>customer's extended policy. Did she ask you to broker this
>deal with this company for her?
>
>Tell her you will be glad to answer any questions the
>company may have. But the price and time to take to fix the
>car will not change. An extended warranty company should not
>dictate how you want to run your business to keep the doors
>open.
>
>Paddy

I like your reply and attitude.

At the last shop where I worked, we had a policy:

The carowner was our customer. The customer ordered the work
and signed the work order. The customer paid us IN FULL when
the job was done.

The warranty company was the customer's insurer. The
customer negotiated with the warranty company and collected
whatever portion of the repair cost that the warranty
company covered.

Of course, we would answer any questions the customer might
have and we would communicate with the warranty company on
the customer's behalf.

Holding the customer responsible for the repair bill IN FULL
when the work was complete also was a lot better for the
shop's cash flow. It protected the shop against warranty
companies that like to withhhold claims payments for 90 or
120 days.
Reply
Darryl Maher (Mar 18) In reply to: Ken Layne

Ive never tried that but the warranty companies Ive delt
with over the years wont cover a repair unless first
approved by their people including tear down. So you might
be doing a diservice to the customer when they call and they
wont pay the claim because no one ever called it in for
approval. Just saying. I do like alot of the responses gives
a bunch of new ideas when dealing with warranty companies. I
have noticed over the past few years much less used car
warranty work. I think people are getting smarter and not
buying the warranties anymore.
Reply
Eddie Ehlert (Mar 18) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

Paddy,

That is essentially how we do it, but we go a little
farther.

We add on to the repair order any additional time for any
verification the 'warranty company' requests that is beyond
our normal operations. We make sure the customer understands
from the first moment that we will provide them with an
estimate to REPAIR THE CAR and that may or may not reflect
anything the 'warranty company' will or will not pay. IF
they want the car repaired, they must be prepared to
shoulder the entire cost even if the 'warranty company'
disappears. We provide the customer with an 'authorization
number' and insist the 'warranty company' pays the customer.
We have no reason to be part of the payment equation.

Unless similar procedures are adopted, we can count on being
under the thumb of third party payors like our brethren in
the Collision Industry or like our healthcare providers.

Eddie
Reply
Darryl Maher (Mar 18) In reply to: Eddie Ehlert

I could see that, but most " warranty companies" pay me with
a credit card the same day for an agreed amount so I dont
really see the reason to make the customer get reimbursed.
and any extras the customer will pay on pick up. I always
have 2 invoices one for the customer and one for the
warranty company. I will say this much , if they tell you
that you can only be paid by check then charge the warranty
company first and wait til you get the check Only had this
once annd it took almost 2 months to get paid . They said
less than 2 weeks !! Luckily I didnt put out all the money
on the transmission until I got paid .Customer understood my
reasoning on that one. Ive learned alot from this thread!
Reply
Eddie Ehlert (Mar 20) In reply to: Darryl Maher

Darryl,

Your one example explained my reasons for letting the
Customer pay first. What if, for some reason, the 'warranty
company' you don't know and don't know where they are
located or where they bank, goes belly up or decides to
'charge back' on their card? Then you become one in a line
of angry creditors. Whereas if you get paid by YOUR
customer, any problems they have with THEIR WARRANTY COMPANY
are not part of your aggravation.

Eddie
Reply
John Rasmussen (Mar 18) In reply to: Eddie Ehlert

Surprised more folks haven't jumped on the "Don't let the
insurance company dictate terms to you" bandwagon. Insurance
companies did not take over the collision industry all at
once, they did it a bit at a time. My brother in law owns a
body shop, and I could not do what he does. He either
kowtows to their pricing or he doesn't get their business.
There is something basically wrong, if not un-American with
that system. While being courteous to our customers, we need
to tell these insurance companies to get stuffed when they
try to dictate to us. Not only is it necessary, it turns out
out to be a Hell of a lot of fun!!!!
Reply
Jake Van Sickle (Mar 18) In reply to: John Rasmussen

The auto insurance companies did it a little at a time, one
shop at a time.

Now THEY set the labor rates, NOT the body shop.

Auto insurance companies dictate the parts to be used in the
repairs- recycled, aftermarket, etc.

IF mechanical repair shop allows these "warranty" companies
to do the sem, eventually all repair shops will be at the
mercy of them
Reply
Eddie Ehlert (Mar 20) In reply to: John Rasmussen

John,

Exactly. Otherwise the 'customer' becomes the 'payor'. The
'payor' does not car what is required to make the vehicle
whole, just what they can pay and make the vehicle owner go
away. AND if what they want to pay doesn't fix it, who will
the vehicle owner hold responsible, you or the 'payor'?
Reply
Donald Lewis (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

The ONLY way to take this job is customer pay and tell the
customer, maybe, just MAYBE, we can help you get something
from these sleazebags.

Life is too short to try to out scam scam artists.

In other words, its a game I would not choose to play.

Don in Austin
Reply
Henry Mroz (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Mark, you need to get signed authorization FROM THE CUSTOMER
for anything you do. Then play it exactly as the warranty
company tells you. If it's a good company they'll make good
to the contract. If not, they'll bring out something in the
contract that will give them an out. (you really should find
a way to get a copy of it)

Either way, they'll probably send an adjuster out so don't
throw anything away and don't get yourself caught in a lie.

It's a nice service you are providing in acting as her agent
but don't let it become your problem. You don't wanna be
stuck in the middle if the warranty company denies coverage.
Reply
Rick Wilson (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Dont forget this may be one of the motors that strips the
head bolts out of the block on reassembly. Good luck.
Reply
Eric Gunter (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Have fun! We have an newer model RAM truck on the lot with a
3.7. The primary chain jumped 90 degrees and took out most
of the valves. Warranty company says tear it down, so we do.
Then out comes an independent adjuster to look at it. Next
the warranty company calls back and says no coverage because
of oversize tires(they were on the truck when it and the
warranty were purchased) unless we could prove the tire
calibration or get an adjusted mileage. The customer managed
to get an adjusted mileage, so then they wanted oil change
records. Ok, customer had only had the truck 6-8 months so
we faced in the records. They called back and said our
receipts weren't good enough, because the customer supplied
his own oil. They wanted the receipts from the store where
they bought the oil. Customer doesn't have them because he
buys jugs of oil when they are on sale. Needless to say the
truck is still sitting on the lot.

I would make sure to have the customer pay up front for the
tear down and inspection because if the claim gets denied
they(warranty company) are not gonna pay you for the time
you spent doin what they required you to do.
Reply
Patrick Carroll (Mar 15) In reply to: Eric Gunter

Hi Eric

Tearing a car apart on a warranty companies ok is stupid. It
belongs to the customer. The customer gives the ok.

If you took something apart that belong to me on someone
else's say so you would be putting it back together for
free.

Paddy
Reply
Eric Gunter (Mar 15) In reply to: Patrick Carroll

The warranty company said to get authorization from the
customer to perform a tear down. Not sure wether the boss
did or didn't but pretty sure we did it for free.
Reply
Ted Schore (Mar 15) In reply to: Eric Gunter

They are looking for any and all ways to back out of the
claim. Most warranties are not worth the paper they are
written on. I would go as far as getting a claim number and
that's it. If they want to play games, they can play with
the customer. No tear downs unless I get authorization form
the one who is paying for it. The Adjuster is there to find
a reason to deny any payments. As for oil, I wonder if all
these timing chain issues lately is a result of the latest
motor oil specs? I remember back in the 80's when they came
out with SF oil, timing chain issues about ended, now they
are back.
Reply
Charles Olsen (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

I always advise my customers to put the warranty company
premium in the bank and save for future repairs/service if i
can get to them b4 they give their money away.
Reply
Ed Spitzberger (Mar 15) In reply to: Charles Olsen

>I always advise my customers to put the warranty company
>premium in the bank and save for future repairs/service if i
>can get to them b4 they give their money away.

Agreed! It's funny how the people who already bought the
policies think they are way ahead now that they can collect
on it. Little do they know they are just back to even.
Reply
Charles Olsen (Mar 15) In reply to: Ed Spitzberger

More like still behind, unless the shop gives away what is
not paid/covered, deductible etc. I have been told by some
they do not cover diagnosis, so customer gets that bill.
Reply
Darryl Maher (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

I didn't read the other responses but heres my opinion. You
didn't buy the vehicle you didn't over heat it and you
didn't buy their crappy warranty (IT probably begins with a
G and ends in an N) . MY advice is don't get tied up in
saving the day because Ive learned that when dealing with
these warranty companies especially certain ones no good
deed will go unpunished. Its just not worth it . Get tear
down time from the customer and let the cards fall where
they may. Ive had their inspectors here and they will do
what ever it takes to not cover repairs. Probably best to
let the customer know in advance that its a great
possibility the repair wont be covered . Then when its not
covered just say the warranty doesnt cover the repairs .
Again its not worth the aggravation of trying to trick them
to help the customer from having to pay let the warranty
company explain why its not covered. If its covered I have
no problem excepting the money from the warranty company.
Reply
Charles Olsen (Mar 15) In reply to: Darryl Maher

The repair and bill is between shop and car owner, the
warranty coverage is between car owner and warranty company.
(unless repair shop issued the warranty or you are a dealer)
:-0
Reply
Ray Frigerio (Mar 17) In reply to: Darryl Maher

Yep. I had a 06 civic with leaking valves on # 1 cyl.
warantee company Authorized teardown,tore head off, adjuster
looks at it and says valves are" bent" and that I must have
bent em when I took the head off. I told him"umm ,remember,
they were leaking PRIOR to removal?! hence the teardown".It
took the machine shop to prove that valves were'nt bent and
that a 20 year veteran CMAT might know a little more about
engine work than some former Lube jockey that works for an
warrantee company ,probably because he could'nt keep a job
actually FIXING cars...
Reply
Ed Spitzberger (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

>2007 camry comes in. Customer was on expressway and she said
>she heard some strange noise and SES light came on. The
>water pump is leaking bad and the belt jumped pulleys. I
>then see a lot of oil around the cylinder head area and
>under the car. The oil is coming from the head gasket. The
>car runs fine and the SES light was a coolant sensor code
>from low coolant level. The customer informs us of the
>warranty contract she has. Call the warranty company and
>they say we must tear down the engine before they will talk
>about what they will cover. I have dealt with these
>companies many times and they usually wont cover anything
>saying its abuse or normal wear and tear. I don't have a
>copy of the contract and the warranty company says they
>don't have anything they can fax me. They want to play hard
>ball and skate out of paying im sure. What can I tell them
>once I pull this thing apart and say the head is not
>cracked. I know its all in the proper verbage of what you
>say. They may have strange stipulations like they cover a
>cylinder head but because its just a head gasket they don't
>cover or vis versa. I don't know if this vehicle leaked oil
>prior to the water pump failure. Any advise?

You getting stuck in the middle = a losing effort. Just give
them the facts with no opinions, that's all you are there
for. I don't know why your undies are in a bundle over it.
Reply
Jake Van Sickle (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Warranty companies are just like car insurance companies-
They are in business to make money.

The less they have to pay on a claim, the more money goes to
their bottom line.

You want to see what happens when shop owners get involved
with helping a customer with a claim to insurance - talk to
some body shop owners. Car insurace companies are now
dictating what parts to use, how much labor dollars per hour
they can charge etc.

Do you really want to be the one to help make that happen to
mechanical repair shops?

Auto insurance writes the estimate and the body shop does
the work for that amount. Adjusters estimate even tell the
vehicle owner- we will only pay for recycled and aftermarket
parts. IF you want new OEM parts you will pay the
difference.
Reply
Byron Dickens (Mar 18) In reply to: Jake Van Sickle

Yep. And look at the kind of work that body shops - even
"good" ones - turn out.
Reply
Jamey Thornton (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Have your customer call and cancel the contract, she will be
due a refund for the unused portion of the policy, she can
use that money to pay for the repair, anything else is just
asking for trouble, those contracts are useless!
Reply
Jake Van Sickle (Mar 15) In reply to: Jamey Thornton

Why didn't I think of that?
Reply
Mark Stull (Mar 15) In reply to: Jake Van Sickle

Well here is the deal so far, I called the customer and told
her the warranty company wants her to pay tear down and they
wont committ to nothing. The warranty company wanted me to
check the flatness of the head. They said if it was within
spec's they would cover the head gasket. If its warped, they
wont cover the head gasket. We got the head off and I
checked it with a straight edge and it within spec's. It
looks like it was leaking at a oil pressure point beteen
head and block. Its a MLS gasket. They are sending out an
adjuster at the first of the week. I will have to waite and
see what they say. I did take pictures of the oil that was
sitting on top of the trans and all the oil on the bottom
and firewall. Im still going to have the head milled ever so
slightly to clean it up. I will post next week of what they
have to say. This is a new customer and of course if she
would have asked me my opinion of the warranty I would have
told her dont bother. She has only owned the car since
November and is a young girl with not a lot of money. These
companies should be illegal.
Reply
Tim Buck (Mar 17) In reply to: Mark Stull

Mark:

I think you'll have a much less stressful experience if you
try to understand the process from the point of view of the
warranty company. What they know (and do NOT know) at each
step in the process is extremely important. The car owner
knows certain facts about what went on PRIOR to her and the
car showing up at your shop. You have information based upon
her reporting what she saw/felt/heard/smelled when the event
occurred while she was driving. You also know certain things
about the evidence the car presented to your experienced
eye, hand and nose. The warranty company doesn't know
ANYTHING about the facts of the incident and the current
condition of the car except what you and the car owner have
told them. They DO, however, know the details of the
contract the car owner signed. So SHOULD she. But without
seeing a copy of it, you cannot tell with anything
resembling a reasonable degree of certainty if what she
reports to you about the contract is accurate, or if it's
merely what she thinks she remembers (or wishes) the person
who sold it to her said it says. Apparently she did NOT keep
a copy of her copy in the glovebox. (H*U*G*E error on her
part, IMO.) Can you imagine how much easier/better your role
in this would be if she had, so that you could have read it
BEFORE you talked to the warranty company folks?

I suggest you ask her (ASAP!) to contact the people who SOLD
the contract to her (N-O-T the warranty company (the folks
who WROTE the contract), but the folks TO WHOM SHE PAID THE
MONEY (almost certainly the people who also sold her the
car)) and ask them to fax or email her a copy if she cannot
find hers. As appropriate, suggest she have them fax it to
YOUR fax #. (I'm not convinced she needs to tell them it's
your fax. All they need to know is the NUMBER she wants them
to send it to.) The distinction here between the WRITER and
the retail SELLER of the contract is abso-freakin'-lutely
critical. It almost certainly explains why the warranty
company told you they couldn't/wouldn't fax you a copy.

Early this week the warranty company will also have some
information provided by the inspector. In the event of a
$ignificant repair, it's only reasonable that they get some
of their info from someone OTHER THAN the car owner and the
shop. Duh.

The inspector might or might not freely discuss their report
with you. (If you're not the one paying him/her, what is
their obligation to you?) Something to be aware of, and
respect, as appropriate.

>Well here is the deal so far, I called the customer and told
>her the warranty company wants her to pay tear down

This is nothing but prudent business. Until/unless it is
shown that paying for the repair(s) (leaking water pump AND
oil leak) is the responsibility of the warranty company, it
is the responsibility of the car's OWNER. Duh.

>and they
>wont committ to nothing.

Again, nothing but prudent business. Why SHOULD they commit
to ANYTHING at this point? Again, from THEIR POINT OF VIEW
...

>The warranty company wanted me to check the flatness of the head.

SOP. If the head's flat and not cracked, and there's no
other indication that it might need to be replaced, it makes
a HUGE difference in the likely direction/expense of the
total repair. Head trueness and overall condition are
essential bits of information that must be known BEFORE
proceeding further with the repair, REGARDLESS of WHO is
paying for it. And those bits CANNOT be known without
removing the head. (Just curious. Does the car owner know
what it will cost if the repair ends up as the reasonable
minimum of replacing the water pump and head gasket? (In the
event that the warranty company, for WHATEVER reason, pays
NOTHING, that's what she will be on the hook for, correct?))

>They said if it was within
>spec's they would cover the head gasket. If its warped, they
>wont cover the head gasket.

Again, from their POV, "DUH".

You and the car owner really, Really, REALLY need for YOU to
be able to READ the contract BEFORE you talk to the warranty
company again. Ideally before the inspector gets to your
shop.

>We got the head off and I
>checked it with a straight edge and it within spec's. It
>looks like it was leaking at a oil pressure point beteen
>head and block. Its a MLS gasket. They are sending out an
>adjuster at the first of the week. I will have to waite and
>see what they say. I did take pictures of the oil that was
>sitting on top of the trans and all the oil on the bottom
>and firewall.
>Im still going to have the head milled ever so slightly to clean it up.

"Im still going to have the head milled ever so slightly to
clean it up."

HUNH? Why? If it's within spec, WHY? What's the benefit of
doing so, and to whom? And, WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR the
machine shop charges (plus your markup)?

>I will post next week of what they
>have to say. This is a new customer and of course if she
>would have asked me my opinion of the warranty I would have
>told her dont bother. She has only owned the car since
>November and is a young girl with not a lot of money.

For better or worse, she already DID bother. She bought a
warranty contract a few months ago, and now her car is
broken. It may well be that at least SOME of the cost of
repairing the current brokenness will be covered by the
contract.

>These
>companies should be illegal.

Really? Seriously? Why? (And, perhaps more to the point,
HOW?)

What about companies that sell whole-life insurance? Are you
OK with THEIR continued operation? Mebbe we need a new
thread for that...

I wish you and the car owner well in this process. Nothing
will enhance your effectiveness (or lower your stress) like
prepping yourself with the info in the contract, and trying
your level best to understand THE WARRANTY COMPANY's POV.
Reply
Matthew Hutchens (Mar 16) In reply to: Jamey Thornton

Not always. I was reading at Car & Driver about
Stoprepairbills.com actually selling you a product. If you
buy "The Choice" contract, they send you a coolant system
additive called "The Choice", and in the small print it
tells you that you're buying a product and not a service
contract. Now, if you cancel the "service contract", they
don't have to refund the money... That's just dirty.
Reply
Jamey Thornton (Mar 16) In reply to: Matthew Hutchens

Yet another example of how unethical those company's are!
Reply
Chip Parman (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

We have some customers that will come in with paid for
extended warranty. I will tell them up front, that MOST
warranty companies will not pay for everything, and what
ever the company does not pay, it will be the owners
expense. We call the warranty company and they say they will
pay X, I then call the customer and tell them that they are
exposed to the deductible ( if there is one) and the
difference. Like Patrick said, we fix cars, and are not
attorney's or an insurance company!
Reply
Rusty Myers (Mar 15) In reply to: Chip Parman

I always find it funny that the people with these warranties
think it is a good idea to pay 1500 to 2000 donuts for
potential repairs on their car that may never happen. I am
sure a good percentage of them think Repair shops are a
rip-off go figure.
Reply
Michael Wiggett (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

I love warranty companies, it's easy money. First you get
the customer to authorize you to pull the head as the
warranty company dictates and also let them know that they
may be on the hook for the labor if the claim is denied.
There is nothing you can say that will make the comapany
pay. They will most likely send out an adjuster to look at
it after you've done your part. Figure out an estimate and
give it to them, what ever they don't pay is the customers
part of the cost. It's not a big deal. I gladly deal with
those companies any time.
Reply
Zack Kirbo (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

Mark, the body shops have to deal with insurance companies,
and they know the game, and how to get ahead! You only have
to deal with a customer! If they are unable to pay without
the warranty company to help them, you turn them away!
Reply
Darryl Maher (Mar 16) In reply to: Zack Kirbo

Your right , but in my market its either your in or your out
. There are shops around me who will even eat the
deductable, talk about desperate. I usually make the
customer pay for the deductable and whatevers not covered .
I will except what the warranty company offers me provided
its reasonable,if not I make the customer pay the
difference. Ive even had them send me their junk parts to
install .
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

We like dealing with warranty companies...we write a heavy
estimate with part numbers/prices and every added labor op
we can think of, plus 3 days rental...give it to a SW and
let him sit on the phone and argue with them. Most of them
will chisel a few percent off parts and a few tenths off
labor and think they won. If the company doesn't pay diag,
the customer is responsible for it. Otherwise, hardly
anything is ever passed on to the customer.
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 16) In reply to: Robert Duncanson

I've been reading answers waiting for one that is a business
solution and it figures it would be yours.

We are a service industry, we do many tasks to gain the work
that is our trade. We have loaner cars, shuttle rides, and
we administer extended warranties (at great profit). One of
the greatest profit centers we are offered are extended
warranties. Just like complex network diagnostics, it is a
function that requires training and commitment. A service
writer is worth his weight in gold here. The end result is a
happy customer and full bays.

The choice is up to the business what level of service they
extend. I submit that the customer often looks more at the
level of service than the quality of the repairs. The
customer has no idea about the quality of the repairs, but
the level of service is immediate .
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 16) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

>I've been reading answers waiting for one that is a business
>solution and it figures it would be yours.

Well it's not me, I think my company has the business part
down pretty well.

>
>We are a service industry, we do many tasks to gain the work
>that is our trade. We have loaner cars, shuttle rides, and
>we administer extended warranties (at great profit). One of
>the greatest profit centers we are offered are extended
>warranties.

We sell an Allstate policy in-house with different coverage
levels, plus we accept most of them.

>Just like complex network diagnostics, it is a
>function that requires training and commitment. A service
>writer is worth his weight in gold here. The end result is a
>happy customer and full bays.

Really, what's the difference if you give them .4 to get a
10 hour job? It should be insignificant to overall profit.

Here's an example from Thursday this week, leaking valve
cover gasket and a misfire on an older Envoy. Needed a valve
cover gasket (covered) and an injector (not covered). Oddly,
they agreed to pay an hour for drivability diag plus the 4.6
for valve cover. So the customer bought the injector and I
threw it in for free because I was right there with intake
and valve cover off. So I gave away 5 minutes to get 5.6
gravy. I call that a win-win for all parties.

>
>The choice is up to the business what level of service they
>extend. I submit that the customer often looks more at the
>level of service than the quality of the repairs. The
>customer has no idea about the quality of the repairs, but
>the level of service is immediate .

This paragraph says it very well, I've heard similar from
our management for years now.
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 16) In reply to: Robert Duncanson

We often look at a car with a warranty and small parts of
the ticket aren't covered. We always look the car over
seriously and find a couple thousand worth of covered items.
Some a close overlap such that the customer pays a small
part and gets a significant upgrade to their auto. My
service writer that handles these tickets should have been a
lawyer. It is really hard for a insurannce adjuster to get
over on him. He usually has them buying everything and
thanking him for doing all the work.
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 16) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

>We often look at a car with a warranty and small parts of
>the ticket aren't covered. We always look the car over
>seriously and find a couple thousand worth of covered items.
>Some a close overlap such that the customer pays a small
>part and gets a significant upgrade to their auto. My
>service writer that handles these tickets should have been a
>lawyer. It is really hard for a insurannce adjuster to get
>over on him. He usually has them buying everything and
>thanking him for doing all the work.

And that's "how to beat the warranty company at their game".
Reply
Michael Byer (Mar 16) In reply to: Robert Duncanson

I agree with everything you and Steve said but in the end
it's the customer who's responsible for the bill. We had an
OK from a company last week and in the end they denied the
claim as an act of god. Some of these companies are real
ripoffs. Fortunately for the vehicle owner the auto inurance
company stepped in and they are significantly easier to deal
with. We will work hard to get the customer's repair
approved but in the end they are responsible.
Reply
Dean Zweibohmer (Mar 16) In reply to: Michael Byer

Just like your hospital bill. {: o )
Reply
Michael Byer (Mar 16) In reply to: Dean Zweibohmer

Doesn't matter to me anymore I'm on welfare.
Reply
Jay Mathes (Mar 17) In reply to: Michael Byer

>I agree with everything you and Steve said but in the end
>it's the customer who's responsible for the bill.

Agree.

>We had an
>OK from a company last week and in the end they denied the
>claim as an act of god.

Good example. Never forget who the real customer is.

That can happen when the real customer thinks they have
coverage. The expectation is that services have already been
pair for when they bought the policy - and they really don't
care what the final bill is. When the bill 'becomes' theirs,
it is looked at in a different light.

>Some of these companies are real
>ripoffs.

Like all of us. Different companies with different levels of
ability & competency.

>Fortunately for the vehicle owner the auto inurance
>company stepped in and they are significantly easier to deal
>with.

And some of those can be difficult too.
Reply
Richard Lindwall (Mar 18) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

>We often look at a car with a warranty and small parts of
>the ticket aren't covered. We always look the car over
>seriously and find a couple thousand worth of covered items.
>Some a close overlap such that the customer pays a small
>part and gets a significant upgrade to their auto. My
>service writer that handles these tickets should have been a
>lawyer. It is really hard for a insurannce adjuster to get
>over on him. He usually has them buying everything and
>thanking him for doing all the work.

Given that Steve, does the SA find it better to know the
customers policy and what is and isn't covered before he or
she makes that first call?

I would think that may be true but maybe not.
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 18) In reply to: Richard Lindwall

Absolutely! When presenting his case, it is always better
to know what the customer deserves. By having all his ducks
in a row, with part numbers and known MSRP pricing, plus
labor at book value (usually MOD), he has the job dead to
rights. He is prepared with diagnostic results, fault codes,
testing procedures and a good knowledge of the system. There
is really no where to go for the underwriter.

The key to winning is to know what is right and to be at or
below MSRP pricing. When you have the prices to the penny
that they see on their screen, they understand there is no
argument.
Reply
Peter Haughton (Mar 19) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

Steve,

This thread which you and Robert Duncanson took off with is
golden! We all need to think of extended warranty companies
as potential profit centers for our businesses. The way you
advise for all of us to be spot on with our pricing as it
relates to parts and labor at the very high-end of MSRP is
exactly what it takes. And don't forget every little detail!
By doing this, the claims adjuster has no choice but to
agree. I plan to print this thread and use it as advanced
training for my service advisors insofar is how they will
deal with future extended warranty company covered repairs.
It really doesn't take too much effort to make this a very
profitable aspect of a properly run business. Just dot the
I's and cross the T's. Kind of like the way I used to make
money at a dealership when it came to getting paid for
warranty repairs.
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 19) In reply to: Peter Haughton

I have a feeling that those who complain the loudest about
extended warranties are those who are supporting inefficient
business models with management guru "price it till it
works" strategies. Those who have been told that the answer
to their profitability is in the pen rather than efficient
business practices.

If one can run a profitable business at MSRP the extended
warranty is a gold mine. If one doesn't know what MSRP is or
what it means forget talking to an insurance adjuster.
Reply
Donald Lewis (Mar 20) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

> I have a feeling that those who complain the loudest about
>extended warranties are those who are supporting inefficient
>business models with management guru "price it till it
>works" strategies. Those who have been told that the answer
>to their profitability is in the pen rather than efficient
>business practices.
>
>If one can run a profitable business at MSRP the extended
>warranty is a gold mine. If one doesn't know what MSRP is or
>what it means forget talking to an insurance adjuster.

All very well, but what about the type of extended warranty
company that says, "OK fine, it needs a rack & pinion, we
will have one shipped to you in a week?" Perhaps even a used
rack & pinion.

Or the one that is going bankrupt and you get bounced all
over hell and gone to try to talk to whoever has taken over
their claims?

Or the ones that stick you on voicemail and don't call back?

Steve, maybe your customers that drive fine cars buy
relatively fine warranties. I have seen way too much crap
and waste of my time to have an interest in dealing them.
And no, I don't think that reflects on my overall business
model and I certainly do know what MSRP means.

Don in Austin
Reply
Eddie Ehlert (Mar 21) In reply to: Donald Lewis

Don,

The dangers of adding another layer of 'unregulated market'
at the payment end.

It would be different if they all played by the same rules
or by any rules at all other than 'how little can I pay and
make you go away'.

Eddie
Reply
David Johnson (Mar 16) In reply to: Robert Duncanson

YEP, thank goodness for flexible labor rates.
Reply
John Giffin (Mar 15) In reply to: Mark Stull

I woud be reading the fine print on their contract for sure.
Some powertrain warranties cover everything BUT seals and
gaskets failure. It's an option that costs more with some
companies.
Reply
William Pupo (Mar 16) In reply to: Mark Stull

to add to what Paddy said:

When ever we deal with EWC we always add .25 - .5 for
"administrative" time for the calls. Always will be more
then one call and they will pay it. If they will not pay
then the car goes down the street. And do not let them tell
you what they will pay for parts! Some times they will try
and pull some slick moves....can you blame them?

FL Bill
Reply
Rob Walker (Mar 16) In reply to: Mark Stull

>2007 camry comes in. Customer was on expressway and she said
>she heard some strange noise and SES light came on. The
>water pump is leaking bad and the belt jumped pulleys. I
>then see a lot of oil around the cylinder head area and
>under the car. The oil is coming from the head gasket. The
>car runs fine and the SES light was a coolant sensor code
>from low coolant level. The customer informs us of the
>warranty contract she has. Call the warranty company and
>they say we must tear down the engine before they will talk
>about what they will cover. I have dealt with these
>companies many times and they usually wont cover anything
>saying its abuse or normal wear and tear. I don't have a
>copy of the contract and the warranty company says they
>don't have anything they can fax me. They want to play hard
>ball and skate out of paying im sure. What can I tell them
>once I pull this thing apart and say the head is not
>cracked. I know its all in the proper verbage of what you
>say. They may have strange stipulations like they cover a
>cylinder head but because its just a head gasket they don't
>cover or vis versa. I don't know if this vehicle leaked oil
>prior to the water pump failure. Any advise?

Yes, I built this from something I found on iATN
originally,I'm sorry I can't remember the author but it was
to use at free will and modify as required,it is in notepad
and may not come out as I have it printed but I hope it
helps.

CUSTOMER EXPLANATION & AGREEMENT

At Walkers Automotive Repair,we are pleased to apply your
extended warranty/service contract

("Warranty Company")coverage towards necessary repairs on
your vehicle.

After obtaining your authorization for any possible up-front
charges that you may be responsible for,

we will diagnose the concern that your vehicle was brought
in for and estimate the investment required

to correct those concerns. We will then contact the Warranty
Company and give them a complete breakdown

of the estimate,doing everything possible to gain full
payment from the Warranty Company.

We will endeavor to keep you fully informed of where we are
in the process with the Warranty Company.

Please understand that involving a third party into the
repair process may substantially delay the

completion of your vehicle.

The Warranty Company may elect to exclude certain repairs
depending on what they feel their responsibility

is in the repair of your vehicle. These exclusions could
include diagnostic testing,environmental charges,

shop supplies,sublet items,towing,fluids,parts and or labor
charges.You will be responsible for any charges

not covered by the Warranty Company,and you will be informed
of these exclusions prior to our proceeding

with repairs.

At times,a Warranty Company may specify a repair which,in
our professional opinion,compromises the

quality of our work or the safety of the vehicle.This could
include the use of salvage or used parts,

or parts of unknown quality which we would not normally use.

For all of the reasons above we are offering you a choice of
the repair options listed below.

1. You instruct us to follow the recommendations of the
Warranty Company, realizing that there

could be serious consequences such as no warranty for the
repairs performed and possibly another

failure. I accept______________. I decline_____________(ONE
SIGNATURE REQUIRED)

2. You would appreciate our contacting you with the Warranty
Company's authorized repairs,providing

you with all options,and making our recommendations
regarding,in our opinion,any upgrade repairs

that may be required and any responsibilities you have in
the repairs including any extra

investment required by you. I accept______________. I
decline_____________(ONE SIGNATURE REQUIRED)

Your options for payment are as follows:

1. I would like you to release my vehicle to me after the
Warranty Company and I have paid our

respective portions in full. I realize that this may effect
my ability to receive my vehicle in

a timely manner. I accept______________. I
decline_____________(ONE SIGNATURE REQUIRED)

2. I elect to pay you in full and have the Warranty Company
reimburse me directly for the authorized

repairs, which will aid in delivering my vehicle in as
timely a manner as possible.

I accept______________. I decline_____________(ONE SIGNATURE
REQUIRED)

This agreement is designed to make the process of dealing
with your Warranty Company as efficiently

as possible, while maintaining the high quality repairs and
excellent customer service you are

accustomed to when dealing with Walkers Automotive Repair.
Thank you!

Customer

signature__________________________________Dated____________
___Repair Order Number________________

Vehicle Identification
Number________________________________

Make__________Model____________Mileage__________Plate_______
_
Reply
Brad Halse (Mar 17) In reply to: Mark Stull

Mark,

your main concern is if the customer is able to pay. These
warranty companies are the same the world over,bottom
feeders playing the numbers game. I would spend the very
minimal amount of time dealing with the company and instead
assess if the lady is going to be able to pay, not if,but
when the company turn around and announce that the failed
part isn't covered.

In this case, you'd be left a fair way into a job without
anyone actually committing to payment. As others have said
mate, you repair cars, you're not a mediation service.
Reply
Lee Miller (Mar 17) In reply to: Mark Stull

Morning Mark,

Are you aware of the headbolt threads failing in the alum.
cyl. block on the 4 cyl. Toyota motors?

Lee
Reply
Mark Stull (Mar 18) In reply to: Lee Miller

>Morning Mark,
>
>Are you aware of the headbolt threads failing in the alum.
>cyl. block on the 4 cyl. Toyota motors?
>
>Lee

No I was not aware of that and will look at the block.

Thanks
Reply
Robert Wright (Mar 18) In reply to: Mark Stull

Find out if the warranty has a "recovery cause". This is
usually worded to limit the total lifetime-of-contract
payout to an amount usually lower than or equal to the
original purchase price of the warranty.

If the customer paid $3500 for the warranty and the cost of
repair ends up being $5700, the customer has to foot the
rest of the bill.
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 18) In reply to: Robert Wright

Is there actually anyone stupid enough to buy a policy that
limits the coverage to what is paid for the policy? I have
never heard of such and routinely bill insurance companies
more than the covered policy price on a single ticket. I
have one E55 AMG customer that had a single ticket at
$10,000 (needed a crank) and has had at least 4 other
tickets over a grand.
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 18) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

> Is there actually anyone stupid enough to buy a policy that
>limits the coverage to what is paid for the policy? I have
>never heard of such and routinely bill insurance companies
>more than the covered policy price on a single ticket. I
>have one E55 AMG customer that had a single ticket at
>$10,000 (needed a crank) and has had at least 4 other
>tickets over a grand.

I did have one customer about 20 years ago where GMPP pulled
the plug citing something like "lifetime payout exceeded".
They refunded his entire premium, too.
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 18) In reply to: Robert Duncanson

Well, I can see it if they refunded. But I'd still be
pizzed. That is what insurance is all about, taking risk for
the chance of gain. You shouldn't be able to call it off.
Reply
Robert Duncanson (Mar 18) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

> Well, I can see it if they refunded. But I'd still be
>pizzed. That is what insurance is all about, taking risk for
>the chance of gain. You shouldn't be able to call it off.

I liked this customer, senior airline pilot for PanAm,
flying to HongKong, Tokyo. One of the very first guys to fly
the 747 jumbo jet. Then he retired and sold yachts, one or
two a year at 5% commission is a nice retirement. Neat guy,
larger than life, lots of character.

He could give lessons on beating the warranty company :)
Reply
Mike Frumento (Mar 18) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

Steve-had a policy (can't remember the the name of the
company) last month that had a limit to the amount of
maximum $ paid out.I let the customer know about it & he had
no idea there was any limit.The particular repair needed
wasn't covered either..Waste of his money.Oh yeah I looked
at one page & found the customer financed the policy & total
cost was $1,500 plus interest..Go figure
Reply
Steve Brotherton (Mar 18) In reply to: Mike Frumento

We have almost no trouble with insurance rejecting claims,
but of course it happens. I even had a guy turn down a
transmission estimate and towed his car home. About three
months later the car gets towed back in and he has a
extended warranty. The trans repair was over $3000 and I
think he paid $2500 for the extended warranty. They bought
it. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't finance the
warranty, thus financing the trans job and giving him a free
warranty for the remainder.

I imagine that many warranties have total cost limits. My
comments were to policies that would limit the compensation
to the cost of the warranty. One would be really stupid to
buy such a plan.
Reply
Darryl Maher (Mar 18) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

There not dumb they are just fooled into a bad policy. Ive
had low cost warranties come across the desk and they'll
tell you when you hit the max and they wont pay to fix
anything else . Kinda defeats the term warranty. The max
seems to be what they paid for the warranty and its usually
on older cars from buy here pay here lots.
Reply
Robert Wright (Mar 27) In reply to: Steve Brotherton

> Is there actually anyone stupid enough to buy a policy that
>limits the coverage to what is paid for the policy? I have
>never heard of such and routinely bill insurance companies
>more than the covered policy price on a single ticket. I
>have one E55 AMG customer that had a single ticket at
>$10,000 (needed a crank) and has had at least 4 other
>tickets over a grand.

I've seen at least half a dozen "warranty recovery clauses"
in aftermarket policies in the past few years. Customers
don't read the contracts before they buy. Just another
variation on the "wallet flush" theme. I'll see if I can dig
up a copy of one of these and post it.

Was that big bucks AMG ticket via Starmark warranty? I've
never had a bit of trouble with the MB extended policy. You
call with the required info, fax a customer-signed RO copy
to Benz, and they issue you a credit card payment, sometimes
the same day. Wish we could do more of these.
Reply
Gene Stallons (Mar 18) In reply to: Mark Stull

Paddy's advice is the first I read and stopped
there.........His is exactly what you need to do !
Reply
Garry Shadwick (Mar 18) In reply to: Gene Stallons

Paddy's right,write up the bill and let the customer argue
with their "warranty guru". Just fired a customer because he
had a $700 + bill that wasn't covered. He bought a vehicle
and the warranty because it had a noisy rear axle that still
has not "broken down". Company won't fix it til it's broke.
Told him no discounts he got pissed because i charged him
labor to do window struts outside of the warranty job. He
was politely refunded half the strut labor and is now
looking for someone else to put up with his "warranty". I've
told folks not to buy these and put the $ away or please
invite me along on their car buying frenzy next time.
Reply
Back to Top | Mark All as Read


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Apr 7, 2013, 2:27 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1401 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

Nick, did you look at the date. this is a year old.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



nickwarner
Veteran / Moderator
nickwarner profile image

Apr 7, 2013, 3:31 PM

Post #14 of 14 (1394 views)
  post locked   Re: Thinking about a service contract for my clunker  

For some reason if flagged it as a new thread on my comp. Time to get the IT people on this one, thats not my department. Guess I should've noticed the date.






  Email This Post
 
 


Feed Button




Search for (options) Privacy Sitemap

shopify
site analytics