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1962 ford falcon carb issues


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kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 7:35 PM

Post #1 of 38 (9823 views)
post icon 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

I have a 1962 Ford Falcon with a 2.8 L engine. I bought the car recently and found that the choke cable was not connected anymore, after more investigation I found that they previous owner had changed it from manual choke to an automatic choke which also is not working. I purchased a rebuilt manual choke carb and looking at the two they seem very different. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out where to start with the replacement?


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 7:56 PM

Post #2 of 38 (9818 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

2.8L? Can you post pics of the two carbs so we can see what we're dealing with? Personally, I'd rather fix the auto. choke than go back to manual, but your choice.
Loren
SW Washington


kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 8:30 PM

Post #3 of 38 (9816 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

I am resizing the pictures now so I can upload them.


kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 8:52 PM

Post #4 of 38 (9807 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

This is the auto that is in the car right now


kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 8:55 PM

Post #5 of 38 (9806 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In


This is the rebuilt man. choke Not sure if I got all the pictures that may be needed


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 9:02 PM

Post #6 of 38 (9803 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Looks like the throttle linkage and fuel inlet are different on the manual choke model. I'm sure it can be done if you want to do the mods. What is wrong with the auto choke? They are very easy to remove, clean, and lubricate.
Loren
SW Washington


kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 9:07 PM

Post #7 of 38 (9799 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

It smells like it is flooding the engine. It doesn't move at all. If you even tap on the gas the car dies out and smells like it has flooded. When driving it just keeps dying out and if there is any up hill it doesn't want to go. My dad said that it sound like the choke wasn't working so he picked up the rebuild


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 9:16 PM

Post #8 of 38 (9797 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

The picture shows that the choke is wide open. Does it close when it's cold? If it's staying open, it would be very 'cold blooded', but shouldn't be flooding. If it's sticking closed after the engine is warm, that would cause flooding.
Gosh, I can't remember if these things were originally manual or automatic choke. The one that is on there now, looks like it would be OE, or at least a duplicate of OE. Can you take the rebuild back and get one with the auto choke? Have you checked 1) Choke operation, hot and cold, 2) Points condition and dwell, 3) Timing, ect. Just want to make sure your problem is the carb.
Loren
SW Washington


kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 9:23 PM

Post #9 of 38 (9796 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

When the engine is warm it does stay closed it is open right now because i opened it. The falcon was original manual, that is why my dad got the carb with manual choke. It still has the choke cable and everything working properly through into the engine compartment, it just doesn't go to the auto carb. The choke doesn't move at all whether it is hot or cold at this point. I haven't checked the timing yet everything else I have


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 9:30 PM

Post #10 of 38 (9792 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Okay, so it was manual...Well, still your call. If you want to attempt fixing the auto choke, I'll try and guide you through it, if you want. You'll need to remove the three screws that hold the black plastic cover. Inside, you'll see the 'linkage' that is connected to the choke 'butterfly'. It should move easily, back and forth. If lucky, you can spray the heck out of the inside of the assy. with penetrating oil and keep working the linkage until it is nice and free. It not lucky, you'll need to remove the choke housing from the carb. You should see two (maybe three... can't remember) screws holding it to the carb and a piece of linkage on the back of the choke that connects to the carb. I'll see if I can find a pic of the inside of the choke for you.
Loren
SW Washington


kwestfall
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Jan 31, 2009, 10:01 PM

Post #11 of 38 (9789 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

I will try the penetrating oil tomorrow. Hopefully I will be lucky and that will work. If you can find the pic of the inside that would be awesome. Could this be why I am having issues of the engine smelling like it is flooding? I just took care of the fuel pump, and the fuel filter and it was all gunkie so hopefully a good oil will help the choke. Thanks for the help I will let you know how it goes.


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 10:01 PM

Post #12 of 38 (9789 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

This isn't the type carb you have, but the inside should be 'similar'.
The 'lever' that has the 'D' on it connects to the choke butterfly. It must move freely.
Loren
SW Washington


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 10:10 PM

Post #13 of 38 (9785 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Yes, if the choke is staying closed, it will flood the engine. When you adjust the choke, you need to do so when the engine is stone cold. Turn the black cover to where the choke closes to the point where you can open it with a little resistance with your finger. That will give you a starting point. Some of the black covers will have graduations. A center line with arrows pointing rich or lean. Again, for a starting point, set it at the center line if it is marked. As soon as the engine starts, the choke should open about 1/8" to allow some air past the butterfly. If it doesn't open at all, it will flood out.
I just went back and looked at your pic. The choke housing is marked. The plastic cover will have a mark on it, so just line that mark up with the center pointer on the housing. That'll be close. Usually, one or two notches to the rich side, depending on climate of course.
Loren
SW Washington

(This post was edited by Loren Champlain Sr on Jan 31, 2009, 10:14 PM)


Loren Champlain Sr
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Jan 31, 2009, 10:30 PM

Post #14 of 38 (9781 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

This should be your carb. Hope this helps.
Loren
SW Washington


kwestfall
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Feb 1, 2009, 7:38 PM

Post #15 of 38 (9769 views)
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So I cleanded and adjusted the auto carb today and the engine is purring. Thank you so much for the help. So I have another question.... this may seem silly but I need to replace the shocks and I am not sure where to jack the car up to make it the easiest.


Tom Greenleaf
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Feb 1, 2009, 8:15 PM

Post #16 of 38 (9764 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Been watching of course - owned a 1963 of this car when not so old!

Glad the auto choke worked out. Manuals are a pest and frequently you need to get used to each one with each car for behaviour.

Shocks: Some guessing here... You can hoist/lift the car (unitized body) from torque boxes - behind front wheels and in front of back wheels. Then support with a jack stand on control arm or rear the differential such that body can move up and down some like weight is on tires to ground but they are off of course. Then shock is free and should be safe to remove and replace.

Bare with me it's been a long time: If the front spring is over the top control arm the load is on the top ball joint even when hoisted by the lower control arm. Think twice - work once as it goes. If shock is free to bounce with car as jackstanded then it should be safe to remove shock when in that state. A combo of support from body and lower control arm should be best,

T



Guest
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Feb 1, 2009, 11:03 PM

Post #17 of 38 (9758 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Thank you for the post on the shocks I haven't even gotten down there yet to look at them but I figured asking first was probably the best way.
The car ran great this afternoon then we went to take it out tonight and the darn thing started doing the exact same thing it was doing before. I am thinking I need to make sure the adjustment to the carb is set right but what else could it be. It was definately much colder when we took it out tonight.


Tom Greenleaf
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Feb 1, 2009, 11:40 PM

Post #18 of 38 (9754 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Need to refresh what you mean by it's doing what it was before??

Do you mean running rich or starting too rich which was mentioned earlier?

Once warmed up the choke is just going along for the ride and not involved anymore. If it doesn't open then it isn't picking up warm/hot exhaust heat to be sucked into the black housing which has a small metered vacuum leak (on purpose) to draw in hot air from exhaust. You should be able to (caution how you do this) wire choke plate open and that's how it will run when warmed up if warmed up.

The black choke housing is indexed with marks and can be dialed to adjust choke tension at a given temp. By the book it might suggest which notch to line it up to but most are happy to be put on their own fav notch and folks used to change which notch for Summer or Winter use.

If choke is too tight it will flood with fuel. It' s hard to describe but when whole engine is cold as in an overnight you trip choke by moving throttle linkage/touching gas pedal and choke shuts - goes up a step on the fast idle cam and won't climb upstairs without touching the throttle. Now (when totally cold - usual ambient temps - not extremes like below zero or something) you can tap choke plate against its spring tension to be shut. It should by a feel want to shut tight but not all that strong. Hard to describe but it should flip to close from forced open and just give a weak snap to shut. That tension is adjustable by turning the black round choke spring by just loosening a little on the three screws that hold it on. If using trial and error - err to too weak or choke will stay strong too long. It may take an extra pump of gas pedal to cold start. 1-3 pumps was common and each car had it's own character and you got a feel for it as the regular driver. You get used to what temp engine and the day is and just get to know how many pumps will work best and none should be needed when engine is warm except maybe holding gas pedal down just a tad for a higher idle for warm starts within an hour or so.

So please refresh what the issue is - starting or operating issue. Lots can be adjusted and one adjustment can domino to change others.

Pretty good bet between Loren and myself (and others) we know a lot about carb stuff. Now - how much we recall may be an issue (LOL) but I think we can get you thru it.

Please explain again just what it's not doing to your liking and when,

T



kwestfall
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Feb 1, 2009, 11:52 PM

Post #19 of 38 (9750 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

The engine doesn't smell like it is flooding anymore. But when we started her this evening she started up just fine. When I put her in drive and pushed on the gas she sputtered out. Turned her over again and she started right up went about 20 ft or so and sputtered out again.


Tom Greenleaf
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Feb 2, 2009, 6:55 AM

Post #20 of 38 (9745 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

We need to isolate troubles and for this exact moment and situation it seems like the choke is too lean. You really only get one chance a day to check and set the choke tension! Actually - you can check the tension but the real life cold test of how it will behave is just once a day.



That's just a generic exampt of the typical housing - yours may have "lean/rich" or nothing but should show index marks - remember where is is and you can go one or two (max) notches at a time in the direction you feel is best/needed and write down what you did so you can go back to original or pass that for the opposite direction and still know where you were

REMEMBER!:: the whole choke thing is just for cold starts and the first short while of operation and then should be uninvolved with the operation at ALL. This means you must make adjustments to an engine that runs near perfectly when warmed up or you are just covering up or adding to a pre-existing trouble elsewhere.

If this doesn't run well all warmed up this should wait till you get it right when warm.

Let's go back and make this run well warm if it isn't now!
______________________

BTW - What engine is in this? Up top it says 2.8L ?? Save me from going out to look but I think the choices in six cylinders were 144, 170 and 200, maybe a 250 - Cubic Inch Displacement - we didn't speak liters back then!

T



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Anonymous Poster

Feb 2, 2009, 10:46 AM

Post #21 of 38 (9737 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

It is a 6 cyl 170 cu in. I kinda figured it was too lean by the way it was acting. So I will try adjusting it two clicks and then we will see how it does. If this adjusting fails is it time to put in a new carb? What else could be causing this if it is not the carb?


Tom Greenleaf
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Feb 2, 2009, 11:18 AM

Post #22 of 38 (9731 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

OK: Sorry this gets so long and drawn out but I/we are with you. Carbs were such a pill right out of the gate for decades it was its own specialty. Last several before almost everything went for injection were rivoted or had tamper proof adjustments which sucked because they weren't all locked in at the right spots! Arggh!

OKII: Go ahead while stone cold (no recent engine heat) -- note - cold = whatever the area temp is.

When you turn the black dial you'll note the plate gets tighter or looser even with just a notch or two. Again - difficult to describe but the down side of the plate should spap shut but not aggressively tight. As a test - perhaps the strength of is would be just barely enough to support a standard 5-6 inch phillips head screwdriver against the weight of that but close. See what I mean how hard this is to describe?

Before you begin - trip the choke by pulling the throttle right while there or tap on gas pedal just once. Choke should shut. It won't shut all the way by itself without doing that as there's a "step" cam that makes for a fast idle when choke is on. You can push the choke plate by hand to hold shut, then trip the throttle and leave it there for adjustment. Don't over pump throttle as that squirts fuel each time so just enough to trip it and once would be plenty.

When satisfied that a new and good chance of improvement - go just turn the key to start engine with one pump only or none if you just did it. Engine should start and have a high idle, allow that for several seconds and tap throttle and it should lower idle for the second step and not be racing. This era still liked to run for a minute before driving off for best performance or just watch the plate open on its own with engine heat from exhaust heating the choke and it will end up wide open in a couple minutes usually. Tube to exhaust will/should be too hot to touch! Wet finger like testing a frying pan for a sizzle or use a wet Q-tip. I don't want to hear about you getting a burn but we need to know that gets warm to hot too. Have at it,

T



Loren Champlain Sr
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Feb 2, 2009, 4:04 PM

Post #23 of 38 (9724 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

Hi; Back again. Are you getting a severe hesitation, then stall, when you try to accelerate? The Ford carbs had problems with the accelerator pump diaphragms and power valves (economizer valve). Both are very inexpensive and very easy to replace. The accel. pump diaghragm is at the rear of the carb behind four screws in a square cover. Note the placement of the spring during removal. The power valve is screwed into the front of the carb and can be a source of over fueling while running. Both parts should be readily available thru NAPA. You can refer back to the exploded view for reference. The air/fuel mix adjustment: With the engine at normal operating temp, and idling, turn the adjustment screw clockwise until the engine speed begins to lessen, then back off until it just recovers. If it is already too lean, you may have to back off the screw a turn or two, then retry. You may want to do this a couple of times until you get a nice, smooth idle.
Loren
SW Washington


Guest
Anonymous Poster

Feb 2, 2009, 4:48 PM

Post #24 of 38 (9721 views)
Re: 1962 ford falcon carb issues Sign In

I would definately say it is a severe hesitation and then stall. I can try adjusting those. My father is having a mechanic he knows coming over tonight to check out the carb so I will let you know what he says. My dad seems to think the carb is toast. But I will find out in about an hour


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Feb 2, 2009, 7:25 PM

Post #25 of 38 (9713 views)
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Frown so my dad's friend looked at the carb and said that he would replace it. He said that it would need to be rebuilt if nothing else. So I now have the option of putting on the one that I got and making the mods that need to be done or try to talk nice to the parts store and see what I can get the auto choke one for. I know I may regret it but I think I am going to put on the manual choke one. Any help on where the gas line and stuff goes would be awesome. There are pictures above hopefully I can attempt this change tomorrow






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