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Need some tip from yall up north!
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Jeff Norfolk
Enthusiast
May 4, 2009, 4:25 PM
Post #1 of 8
(2742 views)
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Need some tip from yall up north!
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Yall got any tips for working on rusty cars from up north? Since the economy took a dump a lot of folks have been migrating to SE Texas for work. Seeing the rusted out underneath and under the hood syndrome more and more. Did a three hour timing belt on a Honda in six hours today.  Do yall normally get extra time for rust? Ay help would be super!
Jeff
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 5, 2009, 7:04 AM
Post #2 of 8
(2736 views)
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Re: Need some tip from yall up north!
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I throw the time allowed book out the window because of rust issues. You can spent tons more time with a stupid fuel filter or any dumb thing than the book says to do a job without breaking stuff OR to replace what broke!
OK: I've worked for myself so it was my call. Some extra $$ for the extra time but not usually a full rate as much of the time could be just waiting for PB to help and you do something else. Torches are the "blue" wrench for rusted steel - a local or just my name for that wrench - one size fits all at 3,000 degrees!
Tricks: On some items that won't behave at your discretion each item - tighten the nut or bolt till it breaks and just go new.
That for a "thru" nut and bolt something - just break it.
Get small torches if you get into too much of this. Brake line flare nuts - the list goes on will come out if just barely glowing as with exhaust parts. Of course that heat has to be used away from anything it can harm too.
Other helpers are air tools. Set a 3/8th drive air wrench and not too much power to break something you need NOT to break. Back and forth - tighten they to loosen till it behaves.
Keep in mind the regular rust is adding material until bits fall off. It's oxidation so that bolt in a blind hole is bigger when rusted not smaller! Got it?
If you have routine cars that are an issue and expect them back - take the time to spray the routine service items when they are in so the parts will behave when and if you get that job later.
They don't teach "dealing with rust" in the tech books much. You kinda need to live it to get used to it.
Tell a customer it may take extra time! Sometimes letting a penetrating oil set for a day saves breaking a part - you aren't working all that time but you need the time.
Judgement call on how to charge for the problems that can arise.
Good luck buddy. I may be the "rust" meister/master of this forum and deal with it constantly and always did. Sadly it was the demise of all my own cars except one. Run like new and unsafe from extreme rust! Damn!
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 5, 2009, 8:00 AM
Post #3 of 8
(2733 views)
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Re: Need some tip from yall up north!
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Let me pass on one "old timer's" trick for rusty parts.
This is good for things like frozen brake bleeders. Get a small torch and a spray bottle with water in it. The trick is to heat the area around the bleeder but only hot enough to steam water. Now you want to slowly spray a fine mist of water around the threads. Do this until it cools down and then repeat the process a couple times. The trick in this is that the steaming water will steam the rust away in the threads and allow you to put a wrench on cold metal which give the metal more strength than if it was hot. You also won't get it hot enough to damage any rubber parts.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Jeff Norfolk
Enthusiast
May 5, 2009, 6:58 PM
Post #4 of 8
(2723 views)
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Re: Need some tip from yall up north!
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Thanks yall. I have not had much experience with the rust. Except for the last few months. I expect to see it more and more in the coming months. Sounds like I will be investing in some assorted sizes of torches and several cans of PB. 
Jeff
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 5, 2009, 8:03 PM
Post #5 of 8
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Re: Need some tip from yall up north!
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I think I mentioned that the tip of Gumout will fit PB cans. PB doesn't have a nozzle so it just sprays everywhere and will take paint off. I swich them to the tube sprayer to I can direct it OR use a cup and a Q-Tip to place it. Watch out for that stuff - it's stronger than paint remover!
T
That stuff - it's sold at AZ and other parts stores but might be tougher for you to find.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 6, 2009, 5:11 AM
Post #7 of 8
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Re: Need some tip from yall up north!
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A neat set I don't own yet is the tiny bottles (like common propane torch size) of MAPP+OXY which is small enough to be handy and will braze and cut! Propane heat isn't enough in most cases. This twin pack is at the home centers - once seem at Wally World and assorted hardware by Bernz-O-Matic. This is costly as those tanks are refillable and I think it states good for twenty minutes only for full force. If good you only need a minute to heat something.
I'ts on the toy list that even when retired you never really are so I'll have them someday. Neat - as I love to load a truck with stuff for off site stuff.
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Jeff - If you start seeing a lot of this - brakes in particular you can get an eye on what has a chance and what doesn't. Then you buy what you need to make up or splice in brake line/trans lines, fuel lines LEGALLY with proper flared ends. Mopars in particular use a loooong flare nut and line is so stuck inside the nut you won't win. Fronts are worse right at flex hoses and making a piece of new line takes some time.
Watch out for rust between rotor and hubs. Just rotating tires the flakes fall down and it behaves like a bent rim.
More: Those damn mini drum e-brakes are a PITA. That's only static friction is folks use them at all. You need to train folks to drag them now and then to shine them up or burn off the rust in there unseen!
Heat shields on exhaust: Big time troubles. They are tack welded originally. A SS clamps (like for clothes dryer vents) can re support those safely in place in some cases and save a customer a zillion bucks as some can't be replaced that are on OE converters and hence can crank the cost thru the roof. You get you hour to fix and make a happy customer.
Still more: You will need to give up on some flare nuts. Cut the line right off and use a six point socket - forget the flare nut wrenches till the new one is ready. Duh - fuel lines (gas filter suck) you can't use heat unless you are up for that show!
Trans lines - same problems - cut and replace.
More III: The copper tubing and connectors like for a home water to fridge ice maker stuff is NOT legal for use in cars! You can legally use high end rubber and clamps for trans lines.
Again: Some items depending on what you are doing it's easier to tighten to break them and replace with new.
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That was all mostly discussing undercar stuff. Same bull underhood sometimes with assorted nuts and bolts. PB again and wait. Alloys with steel type fastener are the pits. Here - machine shops will extract bolts broken off in cyl heads and stuff and it's worth it if you are sending a head out anyway or just for that sometimes.
With charging for the extra time - show a customer just what you are dealing with - they should understand it takes more time or sometimes ruined parts!
Tom
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
May 6, 2009, 6:52 PM
Post #8 of 8
(2698 views)
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Re: Need some tip from yall up north!
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I'll have to give PB a definate thumbs up.... Man that is probably the best penatrating oil I have ever used........ the stuff is amazing
(This post was edited by Sidom on May 6, 2009, 6:52 PM)
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