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1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 7:41 AM
Post #1 of 30
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1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Suzuki
Wagon R (CV21S)
3AT 4wd Transmission
128,000km on the clock
This vehicle was imported from Japan. Within the first 8-10km's of driving it home the car suddenly began to stall on the highway. Immediately pulled over to shoulder and you can immediately smell burnt AT fluid. No leaks, check dip stick and besides the horrid burnt smell the fluid is still present but also very dark. Flat bed tow truck tow's us the 64 miles home.
Now, the car in neutral moves forward just fine but when trying to get it down from the tow bed IT DOES NOT BUDGE BACKWARDS AT ALL. Confirmed shifter was moving the gear engagement on transmission and in fact was being placed in neutral. Wish a can of WD and rocking the flat bed back and forth the car finally slid down. Rear wheels spin freely both directions. Front only move forward.
I consider myself car savvy but as we all know an automatic transmission is a whole other beast entirely. I plan on pulling the pan this week and potentially doing a basic drain/fill for a final hail mary.
I was not present in the car when this happened, I was driving in another vehicle when we pulled over.
So here I am asking the experts.
Bullet points:
*Suddenly completely loss of forward "go" motion
*Burnt AT fluid, no leak found, (cannot confirm if at proper fill level)
*No metal noises or slipping gears prior to stall
*Potential only sign was failure to engage into final drive (per wife)
Worth investigating? Anything come to mind?
What are we looking at? Potentially burnt clutch packs? Torque converter?
After the hail mary drain/fill I'm highly considering dropping tranny and bringing it to shop so they can crack it open and inspect.
I suspect rebuilding would be cheaper then finding a tranny in Japan and having it air freighted (though I'll be looking into a quote on that)
Thanks in advance, sorry if long winded.
-Michael
(This post was edited by WagonR on May 3, 2022, 9:49 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 3, 2022, 8:54 AM
Post #2 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Michael,
This is a US based site exacting info would be tough. Site's specialist in "Transmission" may or may not be here soon? gsferraro - GARY.
Just this you smelled whatever happened inside most fluid levels checked with engine running IDK this car from some ATV something how it's done.
While here at least look at front driveshafts that they are in place appearing OK one side vs other if nothing else.
This wagon under that nameplate Suzuki I'm pretty sure was sold also as a Geo to the US? Both real "Made in Japan" cars.
Expect lack of super clear info here do keep the hunt on more were sold to other places I'm familiar only that they did,
T
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 9:15 AM
Post #3 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Falls under their Kei car classification so the engine is a 3 cylinder 660cc turbo engine (it's tiny) but variants (with different engines) were indeed sold in India. Some parts from a Geo work but more like cap and rotor, spark plug wires, etc. As far as I know there was no variant released in the US or interchangeable parts besides what I found out on the Geo.
I realize this is a US based site but would assume there are some basic components of 90's auto transmissions that are similar if not the same (clutch packs, planetary gear sets, torque converters, valve body, oil pump) Hoping someone with experience can look at this issue and be like "Yup, I've had that happened it's..." or some guidance on what to look for.
Driveshafts are intact and functioning properly It's as if a one way gear set has been engaged, in neutral it's only moving freely forward.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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May 3, 2022, 9:41 AM
Post #4 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Things messed up here. Please tell me/us just place you are at it shows Florida. Chance is where I rented a Geo with must be that engine trans?
For now look for obvious, check fluid level + put some on white paper to show a color. Also the odor all are clues.
I/we know principles of how things work quite well this would be strange now wild guessing a front wheel drive with the rear figured out somehow on versions AWD some super light Jeep C-J series type thing.
Just parts you'll find that in person places with parts will also have the software to locate parts and matches with some warranty not long for this.
I'm waiting for Mr. Hammer Time the signal you sent comes from Florida just maybe some local info if that's true??
Other than here try sites for just Suzuki cars/trucks or what was close to where you are sorry to say don't be in a rush for the fix sounds lousy you knew that,
Tom
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 9:56 AM
Post #5 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Yes! I'm in Central Florida (Orlando area) already looking into locating parts. Will pull the pan and do a drain/fill while looking for burnt clutch residue and/or metal shavings/chunks. The fluid is done for, burnt, dark, etc. Unfortunately there's not many sites that speak about Wagon R, though they do share close similarities with the Suzuki carry/jimny and Alto works which are more popular. That will be where I go for parts searching, etc.
I'm hoping I can gain some knowledge from the Transmission Guru's here on this site. I'm open to cracking it open and attempting to replace parts if need be.
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 3, 2022, 10:19 AM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Slow down. I was picking my own brain on what (anything) that makes a car (vehicles) roll forward yet not reverse that are AUTOMATICS?
YOU will need to be sure it's transmission at all not fooled by another failure. Drum brakes can do that RARE. Odor may have tricked you??
Check as already suggested I'd like another opinion you took a good effort to made first post so want to my best for you.
I'm lost without fluid all over something or parts hanging all busted what can do that? So....... Hoist all wheel off ground and spin them and or look for brakes (rear) could be drum brakes odors can come forward if so we are barking up the wrong tree. Not funny - good at the difficult this is tricky to me,
Tom
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 10:23 AM
Post #7 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Well remember from my first post. This failure happened on the highway while driving about 60mph, sudden loss of power to the wheels and burnt transmission fluid odor. Since then the transmission does not engage at all in any gear and the shifter is working properly (inspected it) the car only rolling forward in neutral and now backwards is SUPER ODD and I agree with you but the rear wheels move freely. Only the front wheels (where the transmission is at) is having the limited movement.
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Hammer Time
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May 3, 2022, 12:37 PM
Post #8 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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I'll just make one point here..........
There is no way that fluid alone will lock a trans and prevent it from rolling backwards. That would have to be some type of hard part failure like a broken band but Gary is the guy to answer this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 12:42 PM
Post #9 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Understood, I appreciate the insight. I know to fully diagnose this I'll most likely have to crack it open but trying to gauge what's worth doing.
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 3:14 PM
Post #10 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Update wheels are in the air. It doesn't matter what gear I'm in Park reverse Drive etc we'll spin freely with car off. That doesn't seem right.
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Hammer Time
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May 3, 2022, 3:27 PM
Post #11 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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If both wheels are in the air the when you turn one, the other turns the opposite direction. That's just the differential turning not the transmission.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 3, 2022, 3:28 PM)
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 3:37 PM
Post #12 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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I realize that's the differential doing his job but since these are the front wheels where the transmission is also at and the car is in park, that means the transmission is not doing its job. Along with all the obvious other things like not moving and drive etc. About to pull the pan off now. Just thought that was an interesting observation.
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 3:38 PM
Post #13 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Sorry I don't mean to sound. Matter of fact using voice to text right now. Have my gloves on. I definitely meant that as a? On my previous message
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Hammer Time
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May 3, 2022, 3:40 PM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Turning those wheels in the air means nothing at all. You're not moving any part oif the transmission.
This conversation just needs to wait for Gary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 4:07 PM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Update, the smell is what I can only describe as an ashtray. The magnet in the pan has a nice coat of "metal sludge" and found what looked like very small shiny bearings.
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WagonR
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May 3, 2022, 4:26 PM
Post #16 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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WagonR
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May 4, 2022, 3:46 AM
Post #17 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Needle bearings from a thrust bearing? From the looks of it I'll need a complete rebuild.
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 4, 2022, 4:29 AM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Yes - spot on. Hey, I was trying to stay out waiting for Gary.
That + the looks in that pan OMG certainly would cause this whole problem.
Not done or ready yet damage is so severe that casing may not be re-usable.
Best I can guess is if you can't see it then it would need to be all apart in this case because another to redo I doubt so available.
You've searched out more about this car than could be easy web and all.
IDK, do you want to take this core for inspection so you know at least?
It should be placed in a well machined bore (hole) protected like an in and outer bearing hopes that outer race didn't destroy the core or the shaft IDK if ever sold separately for it?
End all is my 2 cents is that's too far gone for reasonable repair - almost certain :-(
Makes the issue today pick a plan to know it in person see a fatal flaw so you don't waste time and $ on that one.
Good work on your part it's old and rare giving the best try I've heard of in a long time,
Tom
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WagonR
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May 4, 2022, 4:57 AM
Post #19 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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I'm thinking the best plan is to simply (not simple) find a used "working" one and have it imported. In the meantime take this one apart and learn from it and/or attempt a rebuild to have a spare.
Ugh, what a predicament to be in.
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 4, 2022, 5:21 AM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Clearly you want this car -right? Idea: Have you considered the hunt and convert this to manual shift? I bet 99+ % of all sold new were.
Even if OBD2 able now this one car may not be makes that easier, Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
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May 4, 2022, 6:28 AM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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You'd need every part to make clutch pedal and on.
Uggg - that or a whole car do away with what you don't or never going to use.
Now you could glance (almost all Asian road vehicles) find the markings in stamped metal such that this could be either plus also right or left hand drive!
If so (must be like that) the parts have a place so not re-engineering what goes where.
Check for State and local laws at the age I think all road able motor vehicles fall off a banned list to use if fundamentals are there - lights, no dangerous alterations this one you wouldn't be or I wouldn't it was thought of already, Tom
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gsferraro
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May 4, 2022, 4:49 PM
Post #23 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Hello,
Reverse was ok? Gary
Lost forward suddenly correct?
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WagonR
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May 5, 2022, 5:55 AM
Post #24 of 30
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Suddenly failure while driving on highway. Burnt tranny fluid smell and smoke. Did not engage in ANY gear and in neutral seemed to be locked out of being able to go backwards (in neutral it moved freely forward, rear wheels moved freely, only front would not spin backwards)
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gsferraro
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May 5, 2022, 5:55 PM
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Re: 1996 Suzuki Wagon R Auto Transmission suddenly stopped working
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Hello,
OK, if you cannot push this car back in Neutral, more than likely you have blown Planetary gears, looks like lots of metal in the pan as well. Gary
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