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temp climbs with AC on


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chas
User

Jun 22, 2017, 7:10 PM

Post #1 of 24 (830 views)
  post locked   temp climbs with AC on  

94 toyota 22re temp climbs with AC on then cools down when off.
new cooling system, hoses, reconditioned radiator, new thermostat, flushed cooling system and new coolent.
vacuum hoses are correct from the VSV valve and idle up valve on EFI body seems to be working ok kicking up the idle a little to compensate for the extra load from the compressor when AC is on.
temp keeps climbing to half way on the temp gauge in about 15mins then i will shut it down and let it cool.
what do you guys think the problem is?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 22, 2017, 7:20 PM

Post #2 of 24 (826 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

Half way on the temp gauge? Why is that a problem?



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chas
User

Jun 22, 2017, 7:30 PM

Post #3 of 24 (822 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
Half way on the temp gauge? Why is that a problem?

it didnt do that before. temp stayed normal. may have climbed a little but didnt climb halfway. Just a little concerned because i dont want to blow a headgasket on the aluminum head.



Hammer Time
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Jun 22, 2017, 7:37 PM

Post #4 of 24 (815 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

You're far from having that concern. It has t go into the red before there is any risk at all.

Let it go and see just how far it goes and under what circumstances as far as speed.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Sidom
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Jun 22, 2017, 8:02 PM

Post #5 of 24 (811 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

Well, you already know that an a/c system will put a heavy load on an engine. Some systems handle that better than others.....

I'm a little unclear on your gauge reading.....If you are saying normally when warm with no a/c, the temp reads a little off cold and with the a/c on its at 1/2....I would probably want to see actual temps,,,,,a data stream would be good or temp gun...something to see what the actual temps are....

I saw where you put in a "reconditioned" radiator......not sure what that means....wrecking yard? used from a rad shop? etc?

a lot place are in the middle of a heat wave....that can make the temps rise as well.....

Also is there any differences between idle, slow speeds & high speed?


chas
User

Jun 22, 2017, 8:57 PM

Post #6 of 24 (795 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
You're far from having that concern. It has t go into the red before there is any risk at all.

Let it go and see just how far it goes and under what circumstances as far as speed.>>>>>>

what?? and risk a blown head gasket. not going there. no thanks.



chas
User

Jun 22, 2017, 9:15 PM

Post #7 of 24 (787 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
Well, you already know that an a/c system will put a heavy load on an engine. Some systems handle that better than others.....

I'm a little unclear on your gauge reading.....If you are saying normally when warm with no a/c, the temp reads a little off cold and with the a/c on its at 1/2....I would probably want to see actual temps,,,,,a data stream would be good or temp gun...something to see what the actual temps are....
chas>>>>>when i say normal temp with no a/c i mean the temp gauge is about 1/4 to 1/3 from the cold white line even on the hot weather. When the a/c is on the temp will climb.
I guess i could put a thermometer in the radiator for the actual temp but i will need to change the radiator cap to one with a pressure release. Just a standard 13lb cap with the over flow to the reservoir tank.

I saw where you put in a "reconditioned" radiator......not sure what that means....wrecking yard? used from a rad shop? etc? >>>>>
chas>>>>>same brass radiator tanked and pressure tested at a radiator shop. At least that's what i payed for. Not a junky plastic after market. They said it was ok and cleaned it up.

a lot place are in the middle of a heat wave....that can make the temps rise as well.....>>>>>
I forgot to mention it also has a new water pump. Yeah, it's been hot but the entire cooling system is fresh.

Also is there any differences between idle, slow speeds & high speed?>>>>> dont matter if sitting at a light, cruising on city streets at 35mph or at freeway speeds. It could use a new clutch fan but at higher speeds the clutch fan is not needed. Even at freeway speeds the temp will climb. Turn the a/c off it will slowly cool down.
I even cleaned out and degreased the entire front and a/c condensor fins with detergent and checked to see if i could see through the fins before installing the new cooling system with the reconditioned radiator. Im thinkin' maybe the radiator is no good or still has a restriction.



(This post was edited by chas on Jun 22, 2017, 9:26 PM)


Hammer Time
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Jun 23, 2017, 5:20 AM

Post #8 of 24 (764 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

No, you are not risking a head gasket at all when the temp gauge is well within the operating range. That or any engine can run up to 230-235 degrees before any damage is done, in fact many new cars are intentionally designed to run up to 230 with no problem.

Head gasket damage occurs when temps start to hit 240 and above. It sounds like you are barely going over 200deg.

All things considered, if you are having temp issues while cruising over 40 MPH, and the coolant is confirmed full, it is likely a radiator issue.



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Discretesignals
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Jun 23, 2017, 5:26 AM

Post #9 of 24 (758 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

When you're doing highway speed and the temps are climbing. If you crank on the heater with ac still running, what happens to the temps?

The aluminium radiators actually last longer than the brass ones. If the vehicle originally came with a aluminium radiator, you should still with that.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 23, 2017, 5:31 AM)


chas
User

Jun 23, 2017, 8:14 AM

Post #10 of 24 (737 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
No, you are not risking a head gasket at all when the temp gauge is well within the operating range. That or any engine can run up to 230-235 degrees before any damage is done, in fact many new cars are intentionally designed to run up to 230 with no problem.

Head gasket damage occurs when temps start to hit 240 and above. It sounds like you are barely going over 200deg.

All things considered, if you are having temp issues while cruising over 40 MPH, and the coolant is confirmed full, it is likely a radiator issue.

>>>>>in fact many new cars are intentionally designed to run up to 230 with no problem.<<<<<<
well yeah, but this an aluminum head on cast iron block. A slight overheat on this can blow a head gasket and maybe a warped or cracked head depending on hot it got. This is one of the down sides of this motor. I would change out to a cast iron head if it was available.



(This post was edited by chas on Jun 23, 2017, 8:43 AM)


chas
User

Jun 23, 2017, 8:19 AM

Post #11 of 24 (735 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
When you're doing highway speed and the temps are climbing. If you crank on the heater with ac still running, what happens to the temps?

The aluminium radiators actually last longer than the brass ones. If the vehicle originally came with a aluminium radiator, you should still with that.

chas>>>>>with a/c and heater on the temp might not climb or may even cool down a little depending on the outside temp and speed.
It originally came with a brass radiator from the factory.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 23, 2017, 8:28 AM

Post #12 of 24 (729 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


Quote
well yes, but this an aluminum head. Dont want to chance a blown head gasket and maybe a warped or cracked head from the an overheat.


Nearly everything has aluminum heads now. These temps are normal.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Jun 23, 2017, 9:42 AM

Post #13 of 24 (721 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

It does cool down when you turn the heater on at cruising speeds? If so, I would be thinking about the performance of that radiator you installed.

You really don't need to include the reply function. I'm having a hard time reading your replies when you include our replies.

I have a 1992 Toyota pickup with a 3.0L and I replaced the brass radiator with your standard aluminium one years ago and haven't had any issues.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 23, 2017, 9:51 AM)


chas
User

Jun 23, 2017, 10:42 AM

Post #14 of 24 (709 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
discrete s>>>>>It does cool down when you turn the heater on at cruising speeds? If so, I would be thinking about the performance of that radiator you installed.

You really don't need to include the reply function. I'm having a hard time reading your replies when you include our replies.

I have a 1992 Toyota pickup with a 3.0L and I replaced the brass radiator with your standard aluminium one years ago and haven't had any issues.
****************************************************************8

chas>>>>>been using brass. it doesn't rust. Usually the upper tank, headers inside, fins and solder fail around the seams. Been using 1 gallon pure antifreeze and maybe 1 gallon filtered drinking water fro a 50/50 mix. Trying not to use water from tap faucet.
Never had an aluminum radiator. How does the aluminum stand up to time, antifreeze and corrosion. Better than the brass?



(This post was edited by chas on Jun 23, 2017, 10:50 AM)


Sidom
Veteran / Moderator
Sidom profile image

Jun 23, 2017, 12:49 PM

Post #15 of 24 (696 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

In a nutshell....right now you are diagnosing a "possible" problem via the gauge in the dash....1st you need to verify these temps.....whether you use a data stream, temp gun, install an aftermarket gauge......There may be no problem...other than a malfunctioning temperature gauge....Once we know what the actual normal temp is and the temp with the a/c on then we can take it to the next step........I couldn't count how many times I saw guys chasing heating problems only to find out the gauge or sender was the problem.....

When posting a reply, if you switch to basic editor, that will get the cursor below the quote box.......I'm with DS on this one, those replies are very hard to read


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jun 23, 2017, 1:06 PM

Post #16 of 24 (686 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


Quote
been using brass. it doesn't rust. Usually the upper tank, headers inside, fins and solder fail around the seams.


Yes, but they do not disperse heat as good as aluminum.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



chas
User

Jun 23, 2017, 10:09 PM

Post #17 of 24 (675 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
In a nutshell....right now you are diagnosing a "possible" problem via the gauge in the dash....1st you need to verify these temps.....whether you use a data stream, temp gun, install an aftermarket gauge......There may be no problem...other than a malfunctioning temperature gauge....Once we know what the actual normal temp is and the temp with the a/c on then we can take it to the next step........I couldn't count how many times I saw guys chasing heating problems only to find out the gauge or sender was the problem.....

When posting a reply, if you switch to basic editor, that will get the cursor below the quote box.......I'm with DS on this one, those replies are very hard to read>>>>>

chas>>>>i dunno why it is so hard to read. I use the >>>>after the forum reply then use then drop a few lines down and use
chas >>>>for my reply.



(This post was edited by chas on Jun 23, 2017, 10:14 PM)


chas
User

Jun 23, 2017, 10:58 PM

Post #18 of 24 (667 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
hammer>>>>>No, you are not risking a head gasket at all when the temp gauge is well within the operating range. That or any engine can run up to 230-235 degrees before any damage is done, in fact many new cars are intentionally designed to run up to 230 with no problem.

Head gasket damage occurs when temps start to hit 240 and above. It sounds like you are barely going over 200deg.

All things considered, if you are having temp issues while cruising over 40 MPH, and the coolant is confirmed full, it is likely a radiator issue.
***************************************

hammer>>>>>in fact many new cars are intentionally designed to run up to 230 with no problem.
chas>>>>>i think that might be where the problem might be. The 22re was discontinued 22yrs ago on about 95. I dont know if the 22re was designed to run that hot. I think the factory thermostat was 180.


chas
User

Jun 23, 2017, 11:26 PM

Post #19 of 24 (663 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  


In Reply To
In a nutshell....right now you are diagnosing a "possible" problem via the gauge in the dash....1st you need to verify these temps.....whether you use a data stream, temp gun, install an aftermarket gauge......There may be no problem...other than a malfunctioning temperature gauge....Once we know what the actual normal temp is and the temp with the a/c on then we can take it to the next step........I couldn't count how many times I saw guys chasing heating problems only to find out the gauge or sender was the problem.....

When posting a reply, if you switch to basic editor, that will get the cursor below the quote box.......I'm with DS on this one, those replies are very hard to read.

*******************************
sidom>>>>>right now you are diagnosing a "possible" problem via the gauge in the dash....1st you need to verify these temps.....whether you use a data stream, temp gun, install an aftermarket gauge......There may be no problem...other than a malfunctioning temperature gauge....
chas>>>>>that's interesting and worth looking into but i dont think the gauge has a problem. The temp gauge climbs with the a/c then cools down with a/c off. The temp gauge is independent from the a/c.
Maybe the a/c compressor has a problem but operates and cools ok. I think it could use a charge. It's not making any noises when i turn it on, idle up valve on the EFI seems to be working normal and the compressor seems to be functioning ok. I don't turn on the a/c while driving with higher rpms or turn it on while on the freeway. I will turn it on idling at a light or shift into neutral while moving to get the rpms down to an idle so it doesn't slam the compressor, fan belt and the shoes in the drum. I don't know what is wrong. It's a new problem.
I'll probably need to get a radiator cap with the lever to relieve the pressure to the coolant reservoir then use a thermometer to check the temp after the temp climbs. Maybe the radiator has a restriction. A new aluminum radiator will be $hundreds easy. A new brass radiator is $200+. I'll have to look around some more.
The radiator shop wants $65 to do the diagnosis thing.


(This post was edited by chas on Jun 23, 2017, 11:40 PM)


Hammer Time
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Jun 24, 2017, 5:00 AM

Post #20 of 24 (646 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

Ok, you have been asked multiple times to stop using the reply/quote buttons and you just choose to ignore us. You have been given multiple forms of advice that you just want to shoot down.
You can buy an aluminum radiator for about $60 for that vehicle.

You did the same thing in the fuel mileage thread and most every question you have ever asked.
Don't come here for advice if you are just going to argue with it.

If you choose to continue posting in a manner you have been asked not to, I'm just going to close this thread and remove you permanently.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 24, 2017, 5:04 AM)


Discretesignals
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Jun 24, 2017, 7:14 AM

Post #21 of 24 (638 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

When you turn on the AC, you are adding extra heat to the cooling system. If the radiator performance is sub par, you are going to see an increase in coolant temps. Really don't think your AC charge is the culprit.
Aluminum radiators are stronger than brass. All newer vehicles and even racing vehicles use aluminum. Aluminium radiators do corrode on the inside and the ones with plastic side tanks will eventually crack and leak, but the price to buy another is really inexpensive compared to rotting or soldering brass.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 24, 2017, 8:13 AM

Post #22 of 24 (629 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

Right on DS. Dump the OE radiator = problem solved. The OE almost can't be good now on a 1994 at transferring heat - period. The only choice is the aluminum/plastic tank type for almost anything now.
The one thing you lose with the new one is drop a wrench or damage it, it's all over again more easily that a new OE type.


Worst problem is it has to fit properly and route air totally thru it not around it can't know who/what company makes it if perfect fit? It's old parts can be a problem so get going.


BTW - I now know of ZERO radiator repair places once common around me which is Metro Boston. Sorry - too many hazmats, acid bath thing just wouldn't fly here or permits renewed they are gone or well hidden and super costly to comply and could just not worth it,


T



chas
User

Jun 24, 2017, 4:02 PM

Post #23 of 24 (601 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

discreet>>>>>When you turn on the AC, you are adding extra heat to the cooling system. If the radiator performance is sub par, you are going to see an increase in coolant temps. Really don't think your AC charge is the culprit.
Aluminum radiators are stronger than brass. All newer vehicles and even racing vehicles use aluminum. Aluminium radiators do corrode on the inside and the ones with plastic side tanks will eventually crack and leak, but the price to buy another is really inexpensive compared to rotting or soldering brass.

Tom>>>>>Right on DS. Dump the OE radiator = problem solved. The OE almost can't be good now on a 1994 at transferring heat - period. The only choice is the aluminum/plastic tank type for almost anything now.
The one thing you lose with the new one is drop a wrench or damage it, it's all over again more easily that a new OE type.


Worst problem is it has to fit properly and route air totally thru it not around it can't know who/what company makes it if perfect fit? It's old parts can be a problem so get going.


BTW - I now know of ZERO radiator repair places once common around me which is Metro Boston. Sorry - too many hazmats, acid bath thing just wouldn't fly here or permits renewed they are gone or well hidden and super costly to comply and could just not worth it,

Chas>>>>>the clutch fan is no good but i dont think it would be a problem at speeds of 35 and higher.
Im looking into a new aluminum radiator. The brass radiator is recond but i dont know how old it is. It might have a restriction or blocked. I need to look around.


(This post was edited by chas on Jun 24, 2017, 4:14 PM)


Hammer Time
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Jun 24, 2017, 4:57 PM

Post #24 of 24 (587 views)
  post locked   Re: temp climbs with AC on  

You just don't listen, do you.

I have had enough.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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