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blowing hot suddenly


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SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 15, 2019, 11:22 AM

Post #1 of 23 (363 views)
  post locked   blowing hot suddenly  

2010 Nissan Rouge about 108,000 miles.A/C suddenly started blowing hot. Compressor not engaging, do have 12 volts on one pin at the compressor connector. Engine running, A/C turned on.
Connected up the AC recharge can to the low pressure side and the pressure gauge on the can was high in the red. Engine running and radiator fan was turning.Checked for debris in the radiator front, clear path, clean fins.Called a few places to have the A/C checked.I would really like to know what could be the problem (s) so when I do go to the repair shop I have some way to judge if they are blowing smoke or really know what they are talking about.
ThanksJerry


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 15, 2019, 12:55 PM

Post #2 of 23 (356 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

No matter what goes wrong with an AC system, the result is warm air.

Get rid of that department store "death kit" and take it to a competent AC specialist. AC diagnosis is not a DIY job and mistakes can cause a lot of damage and even danger.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 15, 2019, 1:05 PM

Post #3 of 23 (348 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Just curios OP: Does that "death kit" (they are) show pressure in PSI or just the color chart? Not sure what they're selling to folks NOW it changes by the month who has what then NONE for real winter's where I am - will say MetroWest an area W. of Boston,


T



SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 15, 2019, 1:44 PM

Post #4 of 23 (338 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

The "death can" has a gauge that reads from zero to 150 PSI. Three color bands, white from 0 to 25, green 25 to 55, red 55 to 150.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 15, 2019, 2:00 PM

Post #5 of 23 (334 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Without the compressor running the only thing that gauge is telling you is that there is some unknown amount of refrigerant in the system.

They are notorious for not being accurate and most of the cans they sell you are not pure refrigerant. Also you NEVER want to randomly add refrigerant to a system. They are calibrated to operate with a very specific amount. Both too little or too much refrigerant can cause serious damage to the system. The ONLY way to know how much is in a system is to completely evacuate the system and recharge it with a weighed charge specific to the capacity.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 15, 2019, 3:48 PM

Post #6 of 23 (322 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Jerry,
Sorry to jump all over how horrible those cans/kits are truth is I've tried most on junk but running vehicles just had to know. If that gauge is even close and spiked what pressure did it read not just RED you gave the range. Without working a hot engine would matter it's just "static pressure" like tire pressure just that "refrigerant" is totally temp sensitive and to the mark related.


It's info that there's some in there - now you know Hammer just said that. Pressure don't tell of how much unless you really know gauge is real close and real temperature need to infrared, touchless thermos right at the port you checked best I guess. Temp means some but below a certain pressure at a certain temp it means way below possible to work.
Chart here is also at locked thread up top here too:

If the area temp not some weather or thermometer elsewhere is less it's just a little left in it. That's a full blown leak that's too much to just attempt (10 pages or more wouldn't do it to discuss that) is the common reason. Finding it another job unless you can see oily yuck on A/C parts or connections that couldn't be from something else.
That's still only a strong clue.
Boosting up a car/vehicle is past really what you should do anymore. Kits like you have still sold used to be full of horrendous sealer so bad (I tested the junk) it would clog the hose it went thru - was air sensitive clotted up like clear paint! OMG that's a disaster.
IDK how to just use your particular gauge if not saying the exact PSI it would be useful. You would know that's it I need a leak fixed or read my crap till your blue on all 4,000 steps you would take.
The problem with this game is vehicles just don't hold multiple pounds of refrigerant many now ages ago had a sight glass you really could get one to work and find out how long just an hour or all season forget fixing anything. Not when systems are sensitive to just an ounce or two.
It's just too much splitting hairs. Too much is the problem and nothing says purge out the air in the hose on can if that type. No air is totally important.
Sorry for the novel you can go anywhere except the company that made that damn can and get what we both started with "death kits" nick named that.
For 99% of folks it's isn't going to be worth what a pro A/C shop would charge just to tell you what it would cost at IDK, $100-$200 bucks? Varies a lot by location I'm sure.
Some places rent equipment FREE for 100% deposits still not enough never heard of renting leak sniffers I like the most if you drop the thing you just lost a good chuck of change.
That's the trouble. Right stuff and knowing just how find the leak most common. Lots of other things too but rule that out if possible.
Now what? What's practical without 1st getting freeze burned (real serious if all goes wrong) but the stuff and or overcharging it - now what?


Concise as I can be it's just not for most folks to do anymore. Yes I do some free see some nasty something before I do a thing. What's the cost is always next? IDK really if a leak I see will it come apart to fix without busting everything?


Again sorry for the novel it takes that to say it's NOT worth it. Finding the right shop is worth it now more than ever.


Wish you luck you can see if you can get temps with that chart see if it matches up just sitting there is info but don't do anything - just tire pressure like test as said,


Tom



SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 15, 2019, 5:54 PM

Post #7 of 23 (312 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Maybe someone can tell me if the compressor clutch is turn on by switching to ground or switching to 12 volts. I ask this because I measure 12 volts on one of the two pins on the connector that goes to the compressor. I don't have a wiring diagram. I checked the A/C fuse and it is not blown.
Another question is what should the resistance be of the compressor clutch coil? I am going to measure that tomorrow. If the problem is a simple malfunctioning relay why should I spend a couple hundred dollars for a tech to find it? I now have a set of gauges so I can measure high and low side pressures. I will report that also. I just want to eliminate all the possible solutions that I can repair without sophisticated A/C equipment.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 15, 2019, 6:11 PM

Post #8 of 23 (306 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

The switching is 12v. The ground is constant but it still needs to be verified.

If you verify power and ground and the clutch still doesn't engage, you pretty much know you have a bad compressor.

You'd better hope it's not as bad relay as that will be a bigger problem.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 15, 2019, 7:47 PM

Post #9 of 23 (296 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Quote ">Another question is what should the resistance be of the compressor clutch coil?<"
Without looking that up, typical magnetic clutch coils should run about 3 - 5 OHMs. Been ages since a burned up one rather bearings more the issue you hear those,
T


SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 17, 2019, 6:48 AM

Post #10 of 23 (263 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Gauge readings are 105 PSI low and a bit higher maybe 110 PSI on the high side, engine running AC on, outside temp 90 F.
Resistance reading at the compressor clutch shows open but maybe I wasn't on the pins. Off to a part store to procure a connector.
Question, can one replace the clutch coil without opening the coolant system?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 17, 2019, 7:09 AM

Post #11 of 23 (260 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

? Are you seeing compressor "Engaged" or guessing? Those would just be static pressure if really 90F out for real. Temp measured is what's coming in thru the grille by fan power just in front of the vehicle not the forecast or area air. Vehicle could be on hot surface doesn't matter compressor isn't doing a thing you now know it has refrigerant in it is about all. If you waited both pressure would be the same or should. IDK, high a touch higher just some "radiant" heat from radiator or other things that are hot.


Testing clutch coil for resistance: Some a pest to plain obnoxious to get at. Use what works. Tiny alligator clips fully shielded get in there. Open is a no go but you and I am not sure yet. Yes you can get a reading without opening the system but if you absolutely can't get at it would have to back up to some plug and check there with it unplugged.
A maybe. Loosen whole unit see if tilting it allows access without opening refrigerant at all. Stuff is tight in lots of things it stinks sometimes,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 17, 2019, 7:43 AM

Post #12 of 23 (256 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Looking at pressures when the compressor is not engaged doesn't tell you anything except that there is some amount of refrigerant in the system.

Sometimes clutches can be replaced in the car but you need very open access and need to be able to see straight down the front of the clutch to access the recessed snap rings. You also need to have room to pry off the old coil. In the end it's usually much easier to remove the compressor and do it on the bench.

I also highly recommend not changing just a clutch or even worse, just a coil.

Weak coils cause a lot of slippage in the clutch which causes wear to the plates and heat on the front seal. A new clutch can cost more than half of what a new compressor costs and if you replace just a clutch and then find out you have a problem with the compressor, you can't buy a compressor without a clutch so you are buying the clutch a second time.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 17, 2019, 8:37 AM

Post #13 of 23 (250 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

So where do you buy your parts? Going to replace clutch and coil.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 17, 2019, 8:48 AM

Post #14 of 23 (246 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

My suppliers are dealer only. I don't know if you will even be able to find a clutch for that. I just checked my local AC supply house and they don'e even offer it.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 17, 2019, 9:06 AM

Post #15 of 23 (238 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

If any, new only, NAPA would find one. Same cost as new compressor if they did mark that up even to "trade prices" would have to.
Maybe once - a tough last try on a car did snag a used one out of very local place to me let it go was ticked off I took just the clutch/coil off a whole one. Place is now gone too costly where I am for the space for acres of used junk stuff still in vehicles could tell it would work before I took it :-) T


SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 18, 2019, 6:01 AM

Post #16 of 23 (218 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

I called NAPA. They don't carry one for this car. I checked Autozone and Advanced Auto......no thanks. O'Rielly's listed 6 different pulley/clutch/coil combos. Not taking a chance there.Found an online supplier for this car. Great reviews. Pictures look just like the one on the car. Parts should be here Friday so Saturday maybe have cold air again? Will keep you posted.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 18, 2019, 7:33 AM

Post #17 of 23 (204 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

I hope you realize that clutch plate has to be shimmed to create the correct air gap between the plate and the pulley. You may need to acquire the correct shims to get it installed correctly. Too much gap and the magnet won't be strong enough to pull the plate in. Too little gap and the plate may make contact with the pulley when disengaged.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 18, 2019, 11:22 AM

Post #18 of 23 (197 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  


In Reply To
I hope you realize that clutch plate has to be shimmed to create the correct air gap between the plate and the pulley. You may need to acquire the correct shims to get it installed correctly. Too much gap and the magnet won't be strong enough to pull the plate in. Too little gap and the plate may make contact with the pulley when disengaged.

So what is the correct gap? Measure the old one and duplicate it for the new?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 18, 2019, 11:27 AM

Post #19 of 23 (195 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

No, the old one is going to have a lot of wear.

I generally adjust them as close as possible without any possibility of contacting the pulley when off.

The spec is .012 - .028 inch



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 18, 2019, 11:41 AM

Post #20 of 23 (192 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Save old washers if used. New may not have those IDK I saved ones for a while as you remove one at a time to get spec as Hammer said the least the better without rubbing. Use a gauge to measure. If real easy and no other clue tightly folded common paper of a biz card is about .020 of course what is "common" to those for paper?
Seriously I don't know where I'd get washers if lost they are NOT the same as any hardware in general that I know of,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 18, 2019, 12:46 PM

Post #21 of 23 (184 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

They are available in many places.

Here is a quick Google search

https://www.google.com/...hu1kKHRy1DVMQ4dUDCAo



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



SkipperJer
Novice

Jul 21, 2019, 9:45 AM

Post #22 of 23 (153 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

As promised, an update. The parts did not arrive Friday, they got here Saturday. Mail is delivered to the house late, around 5 to 6 pm. Sunday morning started taking the car apart. No real problems until I got to the three Phillips screws that hold the coil to the engine. Godzilla put them in. Had to use a ratchet and 1/4 inch socket with a phillips screw insert to break those mothers lose. Everything went back together and no parts left over (a first I think). Fired her up, COLD AIR, YEA. My daughter thanks me and I get our car back. Thanks for the help and hints. Cost was $100.00 for the parts and $50.00 for the pulley puller and snap ring pliers.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 21, 2019, 9:50 AM

Post #23 of 23 (151 views)
  post locked   Re: blowing hot suddenly  

Glad to hear you got it going.

I'll close this question now as solved.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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