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Overcharged, blown compressor gasket


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jjrbus
User

Jul 28, 2017, 7:27 AM

Post #1 of 84 (1286 views)
  post locked   Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

93 Toyota pickup (RV) V6 auto. 107,000 mile. In 2015 people on this forum were real helpful on converting the truck AC on my Toyota RV to 134a. All and I mean ALL old components were replaced in the system. I was on a trip and had an issue with it and was told my evaporator was freezing up and my 134a was low. 134a was added, but I did not have a good feeling about it, the issue was not solved so I used the RV air to keep it cool.

A month ago a mechanic friend checked it for me (not an AC tech) added a small amount of 134a and suspected it was the expansion valve and to take it to a AC tech for proper diagnostics.

I took it in this morning was told that they had removed 34 oz of 134a from the system and that it was likely charged for R12 instead of 134a. Further the over charging had damaged the front seal on the compressor and I had a large leak. This over charging had occurred about Oct of last year or 9 months ago.

So this long lead up is for a simple question. Would a 134a system that was overcharged to 34 oz blow the compressor front seal? And if it is such a large leak why did I have 34 oz of 134a ( my mechanic friend only put in at the most 3 or 4 oz before deciding something was wrong, done from a can not a machine) Is my idea of a large leak and an AC techs idea of a large leak 2 different things?

They also diagnosed a bad expansion valve which from what I read is the issue, less than a year old when it failed!

My thinking is after 9 months or even a month with a large leak from a blown front seal, the system would be empty am I wrong?


Hammer Time
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Jul 28, 2017, 8:06 AM

Post #2 of 84 (1280 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

No, overcharging WILL NOT blow out the front seat. Substandard parts or an overheating (slipping) clutch would be to blame for that. Overcharging to the point that it would cause the clutch to slip would be the only possible connection to overcharging and the front seal.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Jul 28, 2017, 8:13 AM

Post #3 of 84 (1276 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

If the front seal on the compressor blew out, you would have lost all your refrigerant very quickly.


Anytime you suspect an ac problem the first thing, usually, is to recover the refrigerant in the system and weigh it to see how much is actually in the system. If it is low, recharge to the proper weight and then see how the system performs.

Topping off ac systems can lead to problems and is not recommended on today's systems.





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jjrbus
User

Jul 28, 2017, 8:50 AM

Post #4 of 84 (1257 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

Thanks for the quick responses, greatly appreciated.

My plan now will be to replace the expansion valve and see if I can borrow a nitrogen setup to test for leaks.

Will let you know what happens or be back asking for help.

Many thanks Jim


Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 28, 2017, 8:56 AM

Post #5 of 84 (1257 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

With the others - overcharge didn't blow the seal. What did? Maybe a reman compressor or just bad luck. Do remember if OE amount of R-12 is known do NOT exceed 80% of that by weight. Some thrilled being a bit lower but know the # and write it down so it can be measured coming out and the right amount back,


T



Hammer Time
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Jul 28, 2017, 9:27 AM

Post #6 of 84 (1246 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  


Quote
My plan now will be to replace the expansion valve and see if I can borrow a nitrogen setup to test for leaks.


Are you saying that you don't believe the seal leaking diagnosis?

Seal leaks can be hard to fine with the system off. They tend to leak worse when running.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 28, 2017, 10:21 AM

Post #7 of 84 (1242 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

? Shaft seal = oil evidence right behind the clutch. This close to new whole compressor would be unusual IMO but not impossible. Belt way too tight would aggravate it. Just choice back up evidence with a sniffer if empty totally the nitro-R-22 low amount to gain pressure you'd find it without doubt,




T



jjrbus
User

Jul 28, 2017, 11:14 AM

Post #8 of 84 (1231 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

I can't say I did not believe the diagnosis, I don't know enough about AC, I did question it. I did not include all details of the service visit and conversation to keep it as brief as possible.

I have a service tech telling me that my system is over charged, that I can believe as I doubted the qualifications of where I had it serviced. They said I was low on 134a and some was added, so over charged ok, that makes sense.

The tech speculated that it was charged for R12 and blew the seal, might be right again I don't know enough about AC to make a call on that, but does not sound right.

The tech is telling me because the seal is blown, it is a large leak and that the AC charge will be gone within a month, but they will refill it for me if I want. This has been sitting for 9 months with a few trips here and there 3 trips of 300 to 400 miles and one trip of 900 miles. I would use the cab ac on these trips till the evaporate froze to supplement the RV AC.

So it is overcharged with a large leak and will lose its charge in a month, but it has been over charged for months and been driven and the AC used. I hope you can see my confusion on this?
Jim


Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 28, 2017, 11:41 AM

Post #9 of 84 (1228 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

IDK what to say when a leak happens it happens sometimes you'll never know why. If this really held and worked for months then this thing sits for 9 that's a reason if outdoors pumps (it is in essence) don't like not turning.
I find some vehicles with age but compressor isn't old yet will leak without evidence especially shaft seals if exposed to extreme cold and I mean 10F and sub=zero just sitting never used can leak but while so cold only no evidence.


How is the determined to be a 1 month leaker? That's hard to guess at and wouldn't call that super fast some you hear some last just hours.


Seriously - if you are in any doubt get a second opinion and add dye and charge it up if no evidence is proving this well, is oil evidence, dye evidence and an electronic sniffer can target leaks - my own fussy if windy or recent sprays of something were used to clean things off or something but like that best.


Hey - if you are going to go for it with this you should be pretty sure where it's leaking either YOU find it or a shop does with enough stuff to do just that,


T



Hammer Time
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Jul 28, 2017, 12:03 PM

Post #10 of 84 (1218 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

You might want to get a second opinion on the leak here. He seems to be exaggerating a bit and pushing too hard to sell you a compressor.



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Sidom
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Jul 28, 2017, 12:05 PM

Post #11 of 84 (1216 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  


In Reply To
The tech speculated that it was charged for R12 and blew the seal

it is a large leak and that the AC charge will be gone within a month, but they will refill it for me if I want.


I realize this is the internet and we are only getting one side here....

That being said.......I question the seal diag and throw in doing a "blow and go" on a system that will lose it's charge in a month????

That's not doing anyone any favors..... We all get the "every season" recharges....that's different....

I would suggest a 2nd opinion from a different shop






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jjrbus
User

Jul 28, 2017, 1:42 PM

Post #12 of 84 (1197 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

Teh gremlins got me for a whole post!

Mechanic friend says it might be expansion valve, AC tech said bad expansion valve and internet seems to indicate bad expansion valve. It is only a few dollars and a days work so seems like I should replace expansion valve.

This shop use to be an AC only shop but changed to all mechanical repairs in the last few years, they have no BBB complaints and good reviews on Yelp.

You guys have me thinking before I do anything the system is evacuated, I can check for leaks with a vacuum pump or would a bad expansion valve skew the reading?

Many thanks Jim.


Hammer Time
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Jul 28, 2017, 1:57 PM

Post #13 of 84 (1195 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

The expansion valve would be to address a whole different issue. There isn't any point in repairing that in a leaking system. Don't rely on vacuum to test for leaks. That is not only unreliable but does nothing for finding the leak.

I would have hoped someone put dye into the system the first time and you could use a U/V light to look for the leak. That is going to be your best option for finding it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



jjrbus
User

Jul 28, 2017, 4:12 PM

Post #14 of 84 (1186 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

The original complaint was evaporator freezing up.

When I redid the system I used Supercool PAG 46 with UV dye.

Will get ahold of a light and let you know what happens.


Hammer Time
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Jul 28, 2017, 5:02 PM

Post #15 of 84 (1181 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

I wouldn't be blaming the expansion valve for freeze ups.

It should have a temp probe in the evap to shut the compressor down when it gets too cold.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



jjrbus
User

Jul 28, 2017, 7:57 PM

Post #16 of 84 (1169 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

 

I checked the service manual and mine does have a thermister. Also shows how to test it but needs to be removed.


Hammer Time
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Jul 28, 2017, 8:05 PM

Post #17 of 84 (1167 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

You should have access to the wiring outside of the box without removing it.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



jjrbus
User

Jul 29, 2017, 4:24 AM

Post #18 of 84 (1151 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

My first thought was I do have access but the manual shows testing in ice. So I looked at the manual again and it does show a way to test it without removing! I will get to that today and get back to you.

This is interesting


jjrbus
User

Jul 29, 2017, 5:48 AM

Post #19 of 84 (1143 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

Manual calls for 1500 ohms at 77° I have a reading of 1352 ohms at 82° ambient temperature?


Hammer Time
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Jul 29, 2017, 5:58 AM

Post #20 of 84 (1137 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

The real test would be testing for continuity when it is freezing.

Just because it appears to be correct at room temp doesn't mean it still will at cold temps. It pretty much has to be that sensor. It is there to prevent freezing.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



jjrbus
User

Jul 29, 2017, 6:04 AM

Post #21 of 84 (1131 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

Thanks for the quick response, so I should remove the sensor test in ice and or replace?


Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 29, 2017, 6:18 AM

Post #22 of 84 (1126 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

Your call - what temperature is ice? Don't just say 32F it continues on lower you know below that.
Long thread fine just isn't done yet. Is the sensing bulb even sealed up reading correct temps or violated with warm air possible sending wrong info for x valve to adjust flow?


Just a thought,


T



Hammer Time
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Jul 29, 2017, 6:22 AM

Post #23 of 84 (1125 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

It depends how hard it is to replace. I would probably want to check it under those conditions just to make sure if it's a big job to replace.

I don't know how exactly this one is designed to work, whether it just goes open circuit to shut it down or if a module has to read the return resistance and respond accordingly. There may be more to the circuit than simply the sensor.

If you have the wiring diagram try to post it here.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 29, 2017, 6:22 AM)


jjrbus
User

Jul 29, 2017, 4:42 PM

Post #24 of 84 (1105 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

I cannot figure out how to upload anything here keeps showing as broken, so tried PM the schematic to you!


jjrbus
User

Jul 29, 2017, 4:53 PM

Post #25 of 84 (1101 views)
  post locked   Re: Overcharged, blown compressor gasket  

Link will not work even copy and paste and I cannot delete post. Sorry

http://htftp.offroadsz.com/marinhaker/programi/toyota/Air%20Conditioning/2aircondi.pdf


(This post was edited by jjrbus on Jul 29, 2017, 5:34 PM)






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