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Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool.


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LocoMan
New User

Mar 19, 2016, 12:35 PM

Post #1 of 7 (899 views)
Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

Car is a KIA Cerato 2008 with roughly 40k miles on it, specifically this one: http://www.vindecoderz.com/EN/check-lookup/KNAFE227395611590

A bit of backstory, late last year the car started having some problems, it basically shut itself off randomly. Dealership basically told me it was because of oil sedimentation, other mechanics told me it wasn't because of that, that did have some but not that bad, to make a long story short, 3 more visits to the dealership, 2 oil changes and 4 mechanics later, it was diagnosed as a faulty CKP Sensor, which I changed and the problem went away, but not after having the car stopped for 2 months because the problem was so bad that the car would shut off and wouldn't turn back on for up to an hour afterwards, which happened randomly on the streets, once at night (2 months was how long it took for the piece to arrive here in Venezuela after buying from Ebay). For reference, the part changed was this one:

http://kia.epc-data.com/cerato/38481/engine/electronic_control-28390A11/sensor_crankshaft_position-39180/

3 weeks have passed since I changed the part and the car has worked great until last night, when it shut down again.... then I noticed the A/C was blowing warm air, and that the car would shut down randomly only if I had it turn on, without A/C on it works perfectly. So, any ideas about what could the new problem be?. Other than the CKP sensor, the gas pump was also changed, and the battery is new (bought in december), all maintenances are up to date (air and gas filters, oil changes when they should be and so on). Any ideas?

BTW, I know I should take it to a repair shop to take a look and it and diagnose it directly, but it's holy week (major holiday here in Venezuela) so they'll all be closed until the following week, and it's very VERY VEEEERY hot here. Also replacement parts are hard to find and very expensive so I want to start to prepare (financially and psycologically) about how much I'll have to pay for it.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 19, 2016, 2:37 PM

Post #2 of 7 (888 views)
Re: Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

The Cerato is not sold here in the States, but the Spectra and Forte are. There is no way we can tell you how much it would cost to fix your problem because you really don't know what is wrong with it. The labor and part prices would be different between our countries also.

Does this have the 2.0L gas engine? Does it start back up after it stalls with your new issue? Does it stall at idle, while cruising, or accelerating? Are there any trouble codes being stored in the engine controller? If so, what are the trouble code numbers?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 19, 2016, 2:50 PM)


LocoMan
New User

Mar 19, 2016, 3:08 PM

Post #3 of 7 (866 views)
Re: Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

I know it's impossible to know how much it would cost here, but I was hoping that getting some pointers about what would need to be done would help me find out about how much the parts and labor would cost here, and whether it would be better to order the parts from the USA or buy from here.

Engine is 1.6, according to the VIN Decoder website it's a R08H model.

Yes, it starts right away with no problems, but if I leave the A/C it shuts down again shortly afterwards. Today I went around town for about 2 hours (doing groceries and taking family to other places) without the A/C on and it didn't even stall once.

Back when it had the CKP sensor issue it would have problems starting again after shutting off (actually I think that's what killed the previous battery), even to the point where the car wouldn't start until about 30 to 60 minutes after shutting off. It's not doing that anymore.

Doesn't seem to have any pattern of when it stalls, twice I had it accelerating, and today it did it while the car was on and idling on the parking lot.

When I took it to the dealer, they told me it had the error code referring to the CKP sensor, but back then they told me it was giving it not because the sensor was bad but because the oil was sedimented (they turned out to be wrong, the sensor was faulty). No other error back then. I'm not sure whether to bring it back in because of the bad experience I had at the time, and considering that they charge quite a bit of money just for plugging the computer in, but AFAIK it's the only place in town that has the computer needed for KIA cars.

Again, thanks for taking the time to try to help me. I know chances are I'll just have to send it to be checked to find out for sure what's happening to it, but I guess I'm mostly trying to vent off and feel I'm doing something meanwhile since I can't do that until the week after this next one (holy week, everything will be closed).

EDIT: BTW, I think this car uses the same engine and parts than the Hyundai Aveo, if that helps.


(This post was edited by LocoMan on Mar 19, 2016, 3:10 PM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 19, 2016, 4:54 PM

Post #4 of 7 (817 views)
Re: Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

So it seems to only shut off when the AC is running? Before it shuts off is the AC blowing cold? I don't quite understand from reading your post if the crank sensor code was still showing up or not. Has this vehicle had any AC work done on it? Before it stalls out does the engine feel like it is losing power or does it feel like someone turned off the ignition?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 19, 2016, 4:58 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 19, 2016, 11:54 PM

Post #5 of 7 (801 views)
Re: Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

LocoMan and Discretesignals:
Watching with just thoughts on this.
1. Know that A/C is a load on the engine and if not holding a proper idle would or could easily cause a stall but so could any other load if just added load like steering it hard at idle. Need to know if A/C has been worked on as already asked.
2. Ebay links I wont bother checking and OK to leave there with me as Venezuela is not a NATO country so parts and what KIA sold or sells to there could be quite different than other places. The fact that a CKP sensor worked for some time suggests that is either defective or improperly installed - hard to say and can believe techs with lots of know how for the specific car could be hard to come by.
Off Topic: Been to Caracas, VZ in 1970! Took a tour around and a gondola ride up a mountain in one day only. Noted gasoline then was 11 cents US$ and 12 cents for premium! Wasn't there for automotive anything and so long ago now wouldn't matter anyway.
KIA? The company seems to be able to make and sell unique vehicles fast for assorted places around the world with different requirements and grades/types of even just gasoline. VW currently is world leader in custom making vehicles/engines by #s of units sold for such things I think then Toyota the close second, KIA coming up fast. Dang hard to know just what you have or even who made the parts already used?
T



LocoMan
New User

Mar 20, 2016, 2:25 PM

Post #6 of 7 (791 views)
Re: Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

Thanks again for taking your time to reply. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in some answers, english is my second language.. :)

A/C has never been worked on, other than changing the A/C filter as part of general maintenance.

So far only shuts off when A/C is on, the car being idle of moving doesn't seem to have any effect (when it was giving me the failure before it usually wouldn't shut down if I kept the engine throttled). A/C doesn't blow cool air at all, it's like it was set in fan mode.

The error code showed up on the KIA dealership when they plugged the diagnostics computer in (that's what you mean with error code, right?). Haven't taken it there since I changed the part, though.

The engine doesn't feel like it's losing power at all, just shuts down suddenly, like if I had turned off the ignition. That's another difference with the old failure, I could feel the engine shaking more and losing power when it was going to shut off.

I don't think I could have gotten a wrong part, I got the part number directly from the dealership and confirmed it with the vendor using the VIN number, there's a possibility that might be defective (hoping it isn't the case as it took about 2 months to get here, don't want to wait again), but the failure seems different to what it was doing before.

On a related note, when we changed the piece we noticed some rat droppings on the engine (the car hadn't been used other than turning it on ocasionally for 2 months by then).

We cleaned it and I used some clove and pepper that according to a website I read emits a smell that scares them away, didn't notice any more. Is there a chance that the rat might have chewed on some cables or something that could cause this failure?


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Mar 20, 2016, 3:22 PM

Post #7 of 7 (788 views)
Re: Kia Cerato randomly shuts down when A/C on, A/C doesn't cool. Sign In

YES - Call that rodent damage also can be common almost anywhere chewing wires with totally unknown issues until all are fixed and damage cleaned up or fixed.
So - now let's move on to what now is more of a guess then ordinary with this info and that A/C hasn't been worked on intentionally is a cause of stalling now the problem to focus on.
Any cabin (for interior air of car) air filter could be food or nest material for creatures and can clog up the flow of air thru an A/C part called an evaporator which would slow airflow and could cause it to ice up solid but you should notice no air flow when A/C requested by all chances then a large puddle of water if you looked under car as ice melts and no normal dripping water when A/C works properly that's normal most of the time if humidity is enough and is almost everywhere but desert dry conditions - not you.
OK - Suggest now if you are comfortable to do so checking for unseen nest material or wires unfixed or touching anywhere you found that. May require removal of the blower motor and probably will if loaded with chewed stuff in there.
This is a very real problem with no certain one way answer I'll put in a category of damage not so much parts failures or wear outs and can be real work to find all damage.
The other is the compressor is plain choking on returning liquid refrigerant and shouldn't be allowed to if systems were working properly and seriously drag or strain engine enough to stall. You might see the head of compressor trying to turn or even locked up but then the belt to it usually makes a lot of noise.
Compressor could be bad even without the rodent damage too. See if the head plate of it spins freely by hand even with belt on it should and engine off with some resistance but not more than you can do with a glove on. That would be lousy news but good info to have right about now. Please try that and if you can try when engine colder or plain cold run engine with the belt off only for a quick test with A/C on if it still stalls? Quick - I mean very quick - don't let it run a whole minute without belt on!
***********************************
To prevent this from constantly being a problem many tricks have been tried. You used spices to repel rodents can work or not as any. Some change how a car is parked, moth balls seem to help up to a plug in high pitched (humans do not hear) noise maker for repelling rodents and also will really bother some pets! Hard to win sometimes.
I use rat poison in paper bags sold anywhere in the US and no risk as no children or pets would be where I myself have stored items, cars and such.
Unsure how the poisons may work for your products. To my knowledge in the US mouse and rat poisons are going to deprive the rodent of ability to drink water I think or something and CAN'T VOMIT the poison out as here it's not totally toxic for safety sake as a child, dog, cat would throw it up = vomit it out.
BY NATURE RODENTS DO NOT VOMIT NOR OTHER LARGE ANIMALS. I didn't choose that characteristic of creatures!
Appreciate your saying English was a second language to you. It's hard enough as an only language with many acronyms and accents. Some entire places will use a same word for another meaning or pronounce it all differently.
I'll avoid any slang as much as possible and less common words.
In short now you have a very valid reason for strange problems,


T



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 20, 2016, 3:24 PM)






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