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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 12, 2014, 9:28 PM
Post #1 of 17
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DIY A/C repair advice
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Greetings guys, i recently had my AC looked at at an auto elec, told me the compressor was busted and i'd need a new drier too, quoted me $800 for that (original regas was $190 or something)
im guessing the cars previous owners never had the a/c serviced
anyway i'm thinking about DIY'ing (without experience) this repair and here are some numbers i've come up with
best case scenario, if i buy 2nd hand compressor and have a mechanic install it (2 hours labor?)
$495
worst case (4 hours labor < i have no idea what would be a fair time)
$655
best case scenario if i DIY this
vacuum pump -$100 (perhaps i could sell it afterwards too)
parts $155 + some for oil/orings
$465 including regas (maybe $400 if i sell vacuum afterwards)
any advice on this? is there any equipment i'm not accounting for that i will need? any other parts etc?, are my estimates reasonable?
my car is a 2003 mitsubishi lancer 4d CG ES
thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 12, 2014, 9:54 PM
Post #2 of 17
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Re: DIY A/C repair advice
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Did it work with it as you said a "regas" job? That alone would be charging it up properly with exact amount of refrigerant so testing could go on and seems all you know is compressor is busted - Oh really! That's it?
A/C is a lousy way to save money DIYing if you really need it doing things wrong will be the most expensive way out. Used compressor is fine if you just need dead weight or the pulley and about it IMO.
Full diagnosis before even deciding if it's worth it at all. Leaks, contamination, electrical items and an OMG list of things all need be right or it's all a guess if in operative now.
Some a leaking evap alone labor could kill the value of having A/C or not vs the bucks and still only one item in the show.
Diagnose or have it done expecting up to a ton of things to do not like just tossing out an alternator type thing at all,
T
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 12, 2014, 10:41 PM
Post #3 of 17
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Re: DIY A/C repair advice
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what's wrong with a used working compressor?
i can get a used working compressor with 3 months warranty for $150, or a brand new one for $600
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 12, 2014, 10:53 PM
Post #4 of 17
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Re: DIY A/C repair advice
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A/C is a whole field of study not some part. If you really knew of a working one right now AND knew YOURS was even the problem you could.
You have to keep track of oil as there's no measuring it or empty entirely, flush whole system out and start with a known amount.
Just to properly fill a working system is a night course. Air will kill a good system or any significant over or undercharge. Not a good DIY thing without the equipment and at least competent help for a first attempt. Said already, the wrong move can take a couple hundred buck problem and make it thousands if done wrong!
Just look at what it takes only to charge up a known relatively OK system..........
Link is locked up top few of this section......... Worth the read........
http://autoforums.carjunky.com/..._A/C_SYSTEMS_P45460/
Tom
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 12, 2014, 11:39 PM
Post #5 of 17
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Hi again tom, i have no intention of DIY re-gassing the system (it's illegal to do that unqualified here)
as for the problem turning into a larger problem if it's stuffed up
well, if i can save 400 dollars, and there's a good chance a used compressor will work if installed professionally, it seems it would be worth the risk (worst case scenario is, it breaks even worse than it is now, and i'll just live without A/C in my car lol)
but yeah, i'm reasonably convinced i should seek professional installation for it, but it's definately not worth paying $550+ for a brand new compressor in my situation
anyway, as i know the compressor is busted (i had it checked out at an auto elect), i think i'll buy a used one, and get the auto elec to see if there's anything else broken on it, if not, install the parts and all's good
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 13, 2014, 12:09 AM
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just another update, i've contacted the wreckers, asked how long the owner of the part i intended to buy, was told it's still in a vehicle and running fine, so i'll assume it hasn't had a chance to dry out the seals
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 13, 2014, 4:49 AM
Post #7 of 17
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What do you mean the compressor busted?
If the compressor grenaded, you'll need a lot more than a compressor. You'll need the condenser, possible hose if it has a muffler in it, drier, and a thermo-expansion valve. You'll also need to flush out the system using ac flush and dry compressed air. The compressor that came apart more than likely sent metal through out the system.
Your gamble if you want to stick a used compressor on. As a professional tech, I would never stick a used salvage yard compressor on someone's vehicle unless they requested it and sign the repair order stating there is no warranty on labor or the rest of the parts that could be affect by compressor failure.
Your best bet, if you want to do this yourself, is to have an ac shop recover the refrigerant that is in the system. Then you can perform your repairs and have the shop charge and test the system to be sure you did your repairs correctly. That would save you money on buying a bunch of support equipment that you will use very little.
Don't know where your getting $600 for a compressor unless your going through the dealer. You can get a GDP or Compressor Works new reman compressor for around $300. You get what you pay for.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 13, 2014, 4:53 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 13, 2014, 4:54 AM
Post #8 of 17
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It's involved and trouble to use remanufactured units vs new never mind used! You need to know what happened to your own not just told "busted" and if it ran low, made noise there's debris to deal with. If plain weak or operated when as YOU call it "re-gassed" then leaked out of it you may get lucky.
Then you drain old units to see how much oil comes out and measure it. Same for replacement and hope it hasn't been open too long as oil can turn acidic exposed to air. If other or donor car had sealer in it you may get it and who knows what troubles.
It's just not a good used game or DIY thing at all. It's hard to know all that is wrong with yours now and that tells of how much you need to do and I don't think you know that. Where if any leaks are they and how fast?
What were the pressures when you A/C was declared to have a dead or "busted" compressor? A/C repair is not just single parts replacements and recharging but need to know more as to the approach or can lose everything done and still need about every component that touches refrigerant and oil when at first you didn't.
If you don't mind the gamble and stop at that loss if all fails go for it. It might work just I can't say absolutely 100% in the best of cases but would sure try to know as much as possible before digging in and recklessly spending bucks that are unlikely to work.
The thing is A/C is much on it's own as a trade. Not all shops will take it on at all as it's costly all around and seasonal for most but the cost of equipment goes on if only taking up space you could use for something else year round. Shops do, do A/C all year for assorted reasons but most don't where I live or delay final fixes till later sometimes.
I just suggest knowing as much as you can so you are aware of it so you aren't totally surprised if your approach fails or doesn't last. Good luck,
T
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 13, 2014, 8:05 AM
Post #9 of 17
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Well, i'm already 100% convinced i shouldnt do this myself, and i'll take it to an auto shop, also i've noticed that minly auto electricians do the A/C stuff in my aria, and not regular mechanics
as for acidic seals, i actually already asked the seller about this in advance, i asked when the parts were removed and how they were stored, was told the parts were still in a vehicle, working, and would be removed upon shipping- i may need to store the parts for like 2 weeks, any advice on this?
also, is a diagnostic labour intensive? if i'm going to pay $80 for that, i might just save that until i take the car in for the full repair
thanks so much for donating your professional knowledge to me too ;)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 13, 2014, 8:53 AM
Post #10 of 17
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Great that the used part if going that was is still intact in a vehicle. Now, when removed it would be open so I would try to seal it off from air as best you can.
Some may hold oil some not much. The oils used in 134a (should be your refrigerant) is about always PAG types that absorb moisture. Alone not the world right away but dammit it can make it acidic.
Oil of any type lubes a compressor but travels thru the whole system. When parked it will settle where it will and you really don't know how much is where if just sitting, at what angle and for how long. Makes knowing things exactly a nightmare. That's why this crap gets expensive.
Diagnostic time really unknown. Much easier with a slowly failing system while still doing something. Leaks are generally the #1 reason for lack of cooling. Many vehicles continue to try with compressor engaged and oils don't move along to lube it by the time it is both engaged and can't cool so there's the real trouble and compressor is running dry, then a debris field unknown. Yuk. One teaspoon of fine debris and the whole job fails!
Now if in biz for this and you know components are costly, customer doesn't have a year to understand risks of failure and why so expensive but you as the shop should be taking responsibility for some period of time you would naturally default to tossing and doing more pro-actively to make it work well and for as long as possible. Hey - who the heck wants to fail - doesn't do a shop or tech any good either! Nobody really wants a ticked off customer nor a personal failure of missing something.
Your best bet if you proceed is to make a printed list of everything known by what evidence IMO for the tech(s) to help them make some guesses and suggestions that may include no warranty what-so-ever with YOUR parts.
Relax some in the seals and rubber parts are virtually all compatible with the 134a refrigerant, a smaller molecule that takes a better grade then 1993 and older OE vehicles now too long ago to worry about for you. It's the metals IMO that don't like acidic things or corrosion from outside causes either.
FYI: I'm inland of Boston, MA, USA so totally out of season but things happen - collisions and repairs that will violate an A/C system. Most do not heat shops much more than to keep from freezing except a very few. I'm done with this game for a long time but if one came or was sent to me in wild cold I would prep it for finishing in warmer weather and mark it with what was done probably for a tech I'll never know or see.
Sorry for the novel on this. I only meant to advise you that is isn't that easy to just understand never mind do it and succeed plus huge bucks possible but not always.
Good luck. Just hope you understand a little why so many will say it's not a good DIY thing many times,
Tom
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 13, 2014, 6:06 PM
Post #11 of 17
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so, any suggestions on how to store the compressor for 2 weeks?
i'm thinking, just wrap tightly in cling wrap and store in garage
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 14, 2014, 1:43 AM
Post #12 of 17
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Plug ports with what works that wont get inside. Store dry. Prior to installation it should be turned with fresh proper oil as a pre-lube however your chance of knowing how much oil was in that one may be lost if you didn't remove it and measure it so default to educated guessing by its location when installed, system capacity as a whole. General rough guess is add 2 oz of specified oil to it and upstream. Cross fingers you are close or whole system gets flushed out for a known amount.
Note: Most (never say all) will tolerate 2oz over spec with minimal impact. Way too much compressor can choke/hydraulic lock and way under burn out fast from lack of lube.
Over filled some frequently will just settle to bottom of a condenser depending on design making it less efficient a little or a lot?
Guessing is just that when you don't have a dipstick to know for sure,
T
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 14, 2014, 3:17 AM
Post #13 of 17
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so, are you saying i just need to have the new compressors oil flushed out, so we can start with a known 0 amount of oil?, i cant imagine you mean to flush the whole current system, as a brand new compressor would come empty too, right?
as i said, i'm convinced i wont DIY this, so would that really be a problem for a professional?
are there any questions i should ask the seller about oil etc when i buy it, so i have information for my mechanic?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 14, 2014, 4:49 AM
Post #14 of 17
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If the old compressor came apart and spewed metal throughout the system, you have to flush the lines and the evaporator core out before installing your replacement compressor, drier, condenser and TXV. The parallel flow condensers are impossible to flush contaminates out of due to their design.
You also have to oil balance the system with PAG 46. There is a certain amount of oil the system uses and the oil has to be distributed throughout the system when you put it back together. I would definitely drain any new or used compressor and add around 3-4 ounces of fresh PAG. Do not flush a compressor or drier. The remaining amount of PAG the system holds gets oil balanced between the condensor, drier, and evaporator.
There are a lot of steps and procedures when doing ac work. Just about anyone can slap a compressor on and get an ac system to work, but the ones that perform the proper procedures and fully understand the operation and design of the system they are working on usually end up with a system that lasts many years.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 14, 2014, 5:53 AM
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Quote "
as i said, i'm convinced i wont DIY this, so would that really be a problem for a professional?"
That's the good news. As DS just pointed out a pro will suggest doing as he said for the best chance of success with a still used compressor they may not want to use at all so check first with the shop you choose. Some don't want to deal with any of YOUR parts NOR rebuilt compressors at all even right out of the box.
Failures set you back to do it all over again and plus some ending up costing more. Most condensers will be high efficiency and the best attempts to clear one out (flush) is about impossible. It's not straight line tubes and fins inside. Leaving flush in it would wreck the rest of the job all over again.
Driers anywhere, receivers or accumulator hold "desiccant" much like those little packets you may have seen in a package with sensitive electronics that say "do not eat" on them?? No matter but the stuff absorbs any left over moisture and can act as a filter but only once. Flush would ruin them.
Oil mentioned has to quickly be all thru the system so when you redo or begin from empty you do spread it all around. As the compressor first engages it hopefully is fully charged or very close as time is limited even with pre spinning thru oil how long it can without burning up! That would be start all over again!
This A/C stuff is perhaps the only but at least in the top couple things that if done wrong can cause more damage than what you started with making it cost insane amounts to try again.
That explains why so many shops especially if located in seasonal area don't want this work as many folks wouldn't know if their A/C works or not when extremely cold.
Beating up on this to save you. An analogy would be like taking a spray paint can out of your freezer and see how it works - get the idea?
Again depending on location for the shops the space is expensive all the time to even store stuff and for A/C specific things there's low demand or nothing for many months and not worth having it and a tech hanging around too if that's his/her specialty only when so much other work could be going on in that space,
Good luck. Think and know as you do now that it's not always so easy yet you may hear of someone who got away with something but not the disastrous ones! Tom
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Mufasa
Novice
Mar 14, 2014, 7:30 AM
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Maybe i'd be best off just holding off on buying the compressor, and waiting till i can get to an auto elec to do a decent diagnostic, get all the damage before i do anything, see if they can tell me how bad it is, i'd still like to get a used compressor, but we'll see what happens
(This post was edited by Mufasa on Mar 14, 2014, 7:45 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 14, 2014, 7:45 AM
Post #17 of 17
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Sounds like a plan. Go ahead and talk to a specific tech now if only to get more ideas from them and ask if they have enough equipment for this plus the credentials as well.
One good thing is that if bearing for the clutch on compressor is good you have all the time you wish and could just ignore having A/C at all if you can and want to live without.
Many where I'm located when a vehicle is getting over 10 years, rusting, some miles already just pass on fixing and already were looking for newer or plain new vehicle entirely and spare the expense. You have a choice with this. You don't when it's brake problems or many other issues a vehicle can need,
Tom
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