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AC Refuses to except Refrigerant
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EarleH
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Jun 24, 2019, 10:46 AM
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AC Refuses to except Refrigerant
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I have a 2007 Toyota Avalon - 73,000 miles. Problem: AC blowing hot air. Tried adding 134a, would not take. Tried adding Red Angel Stop Leak with injector- would not take. Put on vacuum, would not draw vacuum on low side, put out liquid on high side. Any idea what the problem is? Hate taking it into shop, especially with out an idea of what the problem is. Any help most appreciated. Earle
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Sidom
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Jun 24, 2019, 10:58 AM
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You aren't getting your connectors all the way onto the fittings. Make sure the valves are unscrewed all the way before you try to hook up the connectors to the service ports.
As far as using stop leak on your system, this is a very bad idea that can wind up being costly in the end. The best course of action is to find the leak, repair it and just use straight R134a.
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EarleH
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Jun 24, 2019, 1:27 PM
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I'm sorry. When you say unscrew the valve connectors all the way, what do you want unscrewed all the way, the valve cores. My locking connectors are not adjustable. I had added refrigerant once before when one side quite blowing, with no problems. What I'm up against is that we live in a very, very small town, about a thousand, and what we have is what I would consider a shade tree mechanic! I'm eighty nine and did all my own work till they did away with carburators, and hid fuel pumps inside the gas tanks!! Really, I don't need air conditioning because for the last three years, since I became my wife's care taker, I have not driven further than the grocery, drug store, or hardware store, all of which are within two miles, but, I enjoy working on the car. I thought I might be able to handle this! Hah, the last time I fooled with a car A/C it was with R12. Time does go by!!! Anyway, if you could be a little more informative in your instructions, I would be most appreciative. Earle
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 24, 2019, 1:47 PM
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Earle: It's nothing like dealing with R-12 for this. You had a sight glass back with those on Toyotas such that if low you saw it if you just read the chart of what those should look like. Never mind that's over now.
Sealers will ruin your whole system best left to a last ditch try but you still don't know if you need refrigerant at all sport! Lack of using one can be fatal to it alone and this 100s of other reasons to rule out.
Most you would see at a glance down to a couple things.
If it's been low for a long time and wasn't working and you didn't know it because of a slow leak many do have it probably killed itself tying to run with any request of defog/defrost it comes on and oil in system doesn't move if too low so fried the compressor already, that in turn throws junk along and wreck the next item in line. Air now in a system the oils used become acidic and it's just game over for that A/C or super risky a pro fix would even last if not doing almost all parts that touch refrigerant!
As far as the service ports you need to know each gauge set how it works first then some just don't cooperate with some fittings at all can't even get a static pressure you can trust. Try another set just for that it should read pressure of about the temperature in F. If lower than that it's not going to work with just a boost it may not need without knowing that much.
Small town - I understand it's tough and so costly to do this crap wouldn't be worth it for a shop.
If you want to see if it can work how about pay for an hour of diagnostic time and get some guesstimate of what it would take to make it work.
More and better if refrigerant is just vacuum to hold and charge to exact weight can then see if it works if only an hour see how or where failures if any are or a leak and how fast is shows. Not easy, no longer DIY and mistakes costs so much plus tools it's not worth it.
Agree it's fun and rewarding to do you own stuff but A/C is no longer one that's practical for all but the very determined and a huge wallet for tools and learning time don't count on some YouTube thing it will just steer you all wrong,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 24, 2019, 2:37 PM
Post #5 of 19
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/gforum.cgi?url=http://My locking connectors are not adjustable.
But they do have valves that have to be opened.
I agree with Tom. These systems are nothing like the old R12 systems. They hold far less refrigerant and are very sensitive to having the exact correct amount of charge. You can't do that without the equipment the evacuate and recharge a measured charge.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 24, 2019, 2:38 PM)
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EarleH
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Jun 24, 2019, 6:49 PM
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I will hook up the manifold gauges again and give you a reading. I'll be a couple days. By the way, would getting adjutable couplers be of help. Earle
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Hammer Time
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Jun 24, 2019, 6:55 PM
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No, there is no such thing.
Sidom was referring the coupler not depressing the schrader valve sufficiently. I suspect the valve was just not opened all the way.
Again I want to warn you that you can do a lot more damage than you already have here very easily.
Your system also haso a module controlled compressor with an RPM sensor in the compressor that will shut the system down if it senses an issue.
This really should go to a qualified AC specialist.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 24, 2019, 6:57 PM)
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EarleH
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Jun 24, 2019, 7:37 PM
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Look, I'm 89, likely never need an ac. Right now I want to know why it previously would except refrigerant and now it won't. I am one of those people that when they hear a tick in the motor are never satisfied till the problem is solved. Another question, would the problem show up on the car computer? Earle
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 24, 2019, 7:41 PM
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That car has probably 2 dozen various computers. One of them happens to control the compressor circuit.
Your question about the refrigerant has been answered 3 times already. The coupler was not opening the schrader valve and the compressor may not even be engaging.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 24, 2019, 7:42 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 25, 2019, 4:36 AM
Post #10 of 19
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Earle: Best thing so far is you didn't get that product into system mentioned in post #1. That would end this game if you did.
Glad you mentioned age and now I can feel the mindset you'd have for the "can do" attitude and approach. The problem remains unknown even the very first thing you would check just like a tire a Shrader (named for the inventor) isn't working with your couple to even get a static pressure needed first would be me. Just like a tire what's the fool pressure - that's a lot of info on what's next. I said this, if pressure is about equal to the temp in Fahrenheit plus some as you pass about 70F it's holding refrigerant. Doesn't say how much just that it's there.
If you can't find that the show stops right there. All the controls depend on that pressure just the car sitting there must be in line with ambient temp or nothing else will operate. It will and was designed to default to not work as that would only self destroy the system and may have.
Let's pass step #1 or we are stuck in the mud. That's where the tools and equipment will just wildly overwhelm any practical way to do this yourself can be just as hard to find the right person and place that really can! Double troubles so make that a project to find the right person and place.
You aren't failing the good old common sense of days past just isn't going to "pan out" like look for gold with a pan - you must recall that saying?
Interdynamics at least once made a tire pressure type gauge for this size of Shrader! That thing failed to shoot the same type square with #s printed on it out at the speed of a bullet so quit making those - too bad on that simple thing.
Not sure but think I must have 5-10 things that can find just a pressure on this. Cost of just those would exceed the cost of repairing this alone! Let's be practical - I'm not was as stubborn and determined had to know if it cost endless $$ and time. If you aren't going to go that far stop while it's no harmed any more than it is.
Earle - What's really practical for you? That counts. We (all volunteers here not motivated to be wrong or gain a penny) here to help only the best we can. It's just not practical unless this is an all out vendetta to do it at any cost no matter what for you.
So that's the direction I suggest - not practical now find the right person and shop. That alone is a project! Beware of website ratings of shops too even that is messed with so it's hard to know for sure.
I'll still help but you haven't passed the step #1 so it stopped there now pages long in telling you so,
Tom (Metro-West an area west of Boston gets hot and gets cold both in a flash)
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EarleH
Novice
Jun 25, 2019, 6:14 AM
Post #11 of 19
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Tom, Appreciate your concern for our car's a/c, but (and this is a big BUT), I think that In stated before this is what you might call a village, population just over a thousand. There is one mechanic in town. I would call him a shade tree mechanic, We live 35 miles from the closest fairly large town, maybe 20 or 30 thousand, plus my wife is under hospice care, bed ridden. I am her only care taker. Can not leave her. In fact if I could, I would take a our van in t6o have the broken Braun Lift fixed. So, taking the Toyota in here, I would probably end up with all the problems you have stated, him saying that it was nothing he did. I personally go with your valve core, stem, shraider, what ever you want to call it idea. It has to be simple. What I wonder is if needed to change it, I will be evacuating the system??? Oh well let me try just adjusting it. Does it help having an adjustable low side connector? I appreciate your concern, but I curse this car. With only 73,000 miles I have had to replace the alternator and now this. I had a Honda Civic, with over 200,000 miles that didn't give the trouble that this car has, plus I could buy a alternator for about $50, compared to $200. And yes the Honda got better gas mileage!! Thanks again for you caring!!!! Earle
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 25, 2019, 7:06 AM
Post #12 of 19
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Earle! I most seriously feel for you in this situation full of rocks and hard places like that!
OK: Let's get this fixed. First it's just not that simple you have to accept that or those dang tricks, sealers and more would work and nobody would ever have a problem.
Let me suggest a new twist to get this done. Ask your "shade tree" mechanic who is where that can deal with this up to send the car out on a flatbed trailer and bring it back to you done and take care of other things right now.
Perhaps join a motor club if available AAA Plus would cover the tow one way at least as needed to give you a break. That or another that's known to you and best local advice you can muster.
Hospice itself may help you find help with this! There are certainly people who would help and or pay for this for you take this whole burden off of you and trust me it isn't so easy to learn it now or have the right stuff to do what I'd do today for free for you if I could.
It may work just vacuum and charge but still need a clue to start from. It just isn't worth it and now you've added a serious level of need far beyond the technical A/C crap so maybe I can help.
If you can and want let's find the way out of this for now start as just said with your local person what he/she might do or where.
You just have to trust me it will cost more and be such a pain in the butt to do this one yourself just basic stuff and your time messed up as bad as it gets now.
Change gears - can hit me by click or touch on my name is as close to private as this site or web will get still could be hacked into so use caution always or be assaulted by scammers world wide.
I know you want to do this can feel and smell that but it really isn't practical especially now with what you just said changes this trust me no ill motives let's get this fixed and you concentrate on your "in your face problems" there ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL HELP AND PAY FOR THIS!
Count me in just please off the public view OK?
I care! It's why I do this crap on the web never for a buck was gifted to learn this crap to begin with it just isn't for everyone - just this part of it with this exact car right now.
Let's turn this off DIY and see if we can get this done and you forget just that for now let it happen and there will be another day,
Tom Greenleaf
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da324
User
Jun 26, 2019, 6:51 PM
Post #13 of 19
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Earle, You might try putting the can in a pot of water, not boiling, but hot tap water. I read somewhere where this would get refrigerant flowing from a can that doesn't seem to be going into the system. Can't hurt, good luck!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 26, 2019, 7:41 PM
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That's not the issue here. He has a total disconnect from his gauges. It won't even pull a vacuum.
Yes, warming a can will increase the pressure in the can but that is not the issue here.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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EarleH
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Jun 27, 2019, 8:44 PM
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Tom, Question: I am straightening up my AC gear and noticed that the manifold hoses ends are different. One end is open and the other has, I guess what you would call a rectangular depression pin. Does it matter which end is connected to the manifold? No, I'm not getting ready to connect to the Toyota. I want to compliment you on this forum. It is the first one that has offered sound advice. I'm a hi fi freak, analog, and have gone to many forum, with NO help. I have three reel to reel recorders that disabled. Their problems are fairly simple fixes. My hands are no longer steady enough, plus I lack a bench to work on. In order to fix them, I need to ship them 2 hundred miles!! It is nice living in a small town,m never having to lock your doors, on house or car. But and this is a big but, we lack service people. You can't blame them, because there is little money. What we do have is people moving here strictly for quality of life. Anyway would like to know about those manifold hoses. Earle
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 27, 2019, 9:59 PM
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I can't see the exact hook up problem and where it's not working only because 3 manifold sets of my own each behave a little differently if only just looking for pressure so can't know yours over the web with pics, parts numbers anything that one set in hands would show me.
Small town thing and services. Runs better or worse. Of course any need some routine biz or not worth being there. I'm in working mill town lost to high tech hates 'DIRTY' services now 90% lost to drive thru donut/coffee places. Oh yes, must be drive thru now order from your car before you get there so saves another 30 seconds and charge it to a trans ponder don't have time for a wallet or money.
Hang in there Earle it's frustrating all around.
Smile for today Earle. You said "Hi-Fi" you are dating yourself but already said and love it. For those under 50 years old that means HIGH FIDELITY - great sound out of a radio or recorder. Yes folks, BOTH SIDES OF A VINYL RECORD GROVE HAD SOUND SUCH THAT YOU HAD STEREO not MONO recording. YES FOLKS THAT IS A REAL DIAMOND that's reads the groove. Magnetic tape does the same just with that idea twisted to tape and magnetic forces. Raw basics just made differently no services for that stuff near me either.
Onward. What is the plan Earle? Decent hoses can hook up to the manifold where they park and seal or some just park there for neat storage and keep dirt out.
What do you have?
Tom
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EarleH
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Jul 2, 2019, 10:46 AM
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Tom, I'm at it again!! This time our 2000 Chevy Express 3500 van (the one the lift is broken). This one takes refrigerant, but leaks it out fast> I got a TIF 5750A leak detector. What I am wondering is how much pressure do I need? Do I need to pressure it with the engine running? And before you ask, the rear is sealed off.And I might tackle my 84 Motor Home. Of course that would have to be flush, being it was R12. Look as it is I think that if I stare at this monitor more, I'll go blind! I just NEED work. A reason to live. Of course I have my wife, but without work I'll die before her!! I like your cat. We have a Siamese. I got it from a Humane Society. I thought she would be good for my wife. However I think she had been abused. Funny, she loves our Lab. Rubs against him constantly. She is an indoor outdoor cat. I had installed a in out door way for her. We have had her for over a year and she is just now letting me pet her. I take the approach, not to force the issue. Animals like humans, all have their own potential. Enough, I"ve taken enough of your time. By the way where are you located, northeast, southeast, midwest, south, northwest, or southwest? Guessing, Northeast?? We are in Texas, relocated here after Katrina. Lived 40 years on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Me, I'm a Yankee, born in a farming community in Illinois. Was station in New Orleans in 1948, met my wife. They were going to draft me during the Korean War (Police Action), Visited, Denmark, Scotland, Germany, Italy, Panama, Hawaii, Japan, and of course Korea. Our ship fairryed planes first to Nato, and performed substitute for the Corregador in the Pacific. Of course this was 51 and 52, and I could see the ravages of war. We count our armed forces dead, but we never count the civilian lives, many innocent. Oh well what do I know, Earle
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 2, 2019, 11:20 AM
Post #19 of 19
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I'm inland of Boston about 25 miles. Climate is NOT Boston's is colder and warmer no "ocean" effect like Boston itself. Used to all Gulf states and high humidity just didn't work when there on cars. Been going there since 1972 - get the idea clearly.
OK: The sniffer! Great. You need to practice with it as ONE tool for finding leaks. Engine off is fine if a real leak it's leaking adjust that for smaller leaks. Warning - it will set off if you clean or spray anything on engine or nearby stuff locked inside an oily garage isn't the best place. NO wind when checking.
Practice with even a common Butane lighter blow the flame out it will sniff that gas. Basically, learn the device and when it's WRONG. Go back there later.
Said engine off and some refrigerant in system will pressure up to about the temperature in Fahrenheit! At or around or higher. You need to know real temps not forecasts then you know "static" pressure to expect. Like checking a tire but "refrigerants" are very temp. to pressure sensitive. There's a chart up top long thread on "Charging Procedures don't want yet to make this way too long to read.
Old GM trucks/vans bring up separately on converting to 134a that's another whole deal. NOT mandatory to flush whole system depends what you need and expect.
So for now practice finding leaks with new device I call a sniffer works at "static" pressure with any real leak.
Earle,
If this site or typing is too much reading and questions and answers back and forth just send me a private message by clicking on my name it will show it's from YOU. I can give you my most used phone # we could talk or I could call you. I'm not going to put that out this is open to public too easily same for you don't in these I'll remove it if you do to protect you from unwanted calls - there's enough of that everywhere anyway.
Just clear up which vehicle you are working with for one thread at a time for each if you want ALL to see. More than one will confuse it.
I'll remove two post wasting room above your last one.
Practice Earle - that's today's work, Tom
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